Harris on D'Onston

[admin tim]

http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/J/JACK_the_RIPPER.php

[Maria Birchwood]

If somebody had bother to ask the expert, instead of relying on a little housewife living with the wolves about Dónston´s wife´s death certificate, he would find that she died in England and not the U.S. but there you have it, it is more fun to rely on a housewife than to rely on an expert with 35 years of experience who actually makes a living in competitive cases to find information and competing with the best genealogists in the land. With searches like the housewife´s wrong assumptions, I will assure you, we would go hungry !! Our cases, in real life, have to be proven by another expert before they are accepted as true. If the information provided was false, we would go hungry !!!! Food for thought. Maybe it would be best to leave it to the professionals rather than rely on bored housewives or desperate housewives !!!!!

Maria

[How Brown]

Maria:

Dear lady, I'm a little confused about the "little lady who lives with the wolves" comment.

Up until that little lady provided the death cert. for Anne Stephenson,it was undetermined [ at least to all of those that I know of who are interested in Stephenson ] and a major bone of contention that she had/had not been killed by Stephenson.

Are you intimating that this information already was known? Because if you are,you're doing us a giant favor here.

My next question is....WHO knew about this death certificate ?

Please send me an email instead of placing your answer here,if one of the names happens to be a person who is NOT a member of this website. This is very important. Thank you;)

I will upload the death certificate here for Anne Stephenson a.s.a.p.

Thanks for your post....
*******************************


Briefly:

Robert Donston Stephenson, a.k.a. Dr. Roslyn DOnston, was named as a Ripper suspect by author Melvin Harris, in 1987. A failed medical student and disgraced Customs agent, with a life-long fascination for black magic, Stephenson was fingered by associates of satanist Aleister Crowley long after the murders. There is no tangible connection with the Ripper crimes in Dr. DOnstons case, though he was known to the police as an unruly drunkard, with a few arrests on charges of assault.

See the emboldened sections which appeared on Tim's original threadstarter?

This is the sort of misinformation [or information] that plagues RDS research. The URL from whence this came says as we can see,that he was an unruly drunkard and had been arrested for assault...as well as a failed medical student.

Any comments?

[How Brown]

Here is that death certificate for Anne Stephenson..

I will have to re-size the entire certificate to make it fit....

[Peter Birchwood]

As far as that death record goes, I believe that one C.S. was the finder. However I have a major proviso in that given the extreme commoness of the name, even knowing the approximate age of D'Onston's wife it would be very difficult to identify her death. After all, she may have remarried after leaving her husband.
Perhaps, Howard, you could tell me how in your opinion the death cert was found?
I have noticed messages in the Other Place referring to Melvin Harris' moral character, research methods etc. Let me quote from a message I sent to Spiro last month:
"I spoke to Melvin a lot over the past few years and helped him from time to time with research including finding D'Onston for the first time on the 1881 census when someone, who was helping out at that period swore that there was no trace of him! I always told Melvin that although I really could not see D'Onston as JtR, I felt that he was at least a near-contemporary suspect, was in the right place at the right time and was intrinsically a fascinating character. My main line of research for Melvin was dealing with Mabel Collins, HPB and Vittoria Cremers.
Melvin never had a real interest in JtR, his area of expertise being in studying frauds fakes and hoaxes. I believe that he got onto D'Onston by researching the Victorian occultists: Ada Goodrich-Freer (a lady now almost forgotten but who managed to keep the SPR, Stead and Lord Bute in a whirl of confusion until she was finally discovered faking a seance.) Stead, HPB and the Theosophists, Gurney Sidgwick and Myers.Of course he then found information about D'Onston firstly concerning the story about his appointment on the bridge with the lady friend and then all of the other details of his life which other authors had assumed to be lies but which Melvin discovered to be accurate. And thence came the connection with JtR.
Melvin felt his suspect was as likely to be JtR as anyone else and more likely than most. What drew him into the diary fiasco was the obvious fakery and the sheer wish to believe from so many people. With his respect for the truth and belief that every item in the diary story had to be backed up with solid proof and impeccable research, the whole mess affronted him.
As to Melvin's connection with Donald McCormick, Melvin had good reason to believe that many of McCormick's books, not only on JtR but the ones of the security service that he wrote under the name Richard Deacon had enormous gaps in them where McCormick had reached a point where his theory (whatever it was) could not be proved without judicious invention. At some point towards the end of McCormick's life, Melvin believed that he had got a confession that some of the JtR material had been made up.
I think that Melvin's great strength was that he never assumed that because something had been written about, that it was necessarily true. He knew that most authors conduct research by copying from earlier authors (if you copy from one author it's plagiarism; if you copy from ten, it's research.) He believe in going to original sources which is why his work on everything from Lord Kitchener to the Vinland Map was new and as accurate as he could make it."

Although some have criticised Melvin's research, it's important to remember that he was never connected to the internet and therefore had to physically go through newspapers rather than using one of the many on-line collections which can be searched by keyword.He also was the main researcher for the long-running Arthur C. Clarke series. His last work was for the TV documentary on the Vinland Map.

[How Brown]

Dear Peter:

Thanks for the post sir. There had been some comments made in the past to arouse,induce,and motivate people to discuss Stephenson and one or two of which I am guilty of. I won't deny that. They do appear to be testy,argumentative,even hostile to the work done by Mr.Harris.

If one looks at the thread in question now,it can be seen that this aggressive attitude has been put on a proverbial leash. Its not civil to criticize someone if they cannot defend themselves. However,its not the person,but several points in the work done that I,along with others,merely wish to discuss openly without being criticized for questioning. I know thats not what you are doing [being critical of our asking questions ] ,sir,because I know you are an objective person.

The death certificate was found by Nina Thomas,who is with us in spirit,if not online at the present time. She will return soon.

Nina found this through the National Archives and along with the name [ Anne Stephenson...perhaps due to her occupation or personal decision,she didn't remarry...] the dates coincide with her age [which of course as a geneaologist you know are not always reliable ]...occupation, and birthplace. Give me a bit of time and I will repost all this material here on the site.

Our mutual feeling was that and based in part in the frustration of living so far away from the U.K....that the PRO might have other nuggets of information laying about in Kew which are not being checked into.

Sometimes a person may appear overly aggressive or even borderline "rude" in order to get the ball rolling.... This is true at times in the field of Ripperology. What I mean in this instance of "get the ball rolling" is the further inquiry into such documents as these,as well as other important documents [such as the now discussed O'Donnell,over at Casebook].

I think it was a small price to pay...this being a little testy...in order to get things started. Here,in your post above,we all learn new things. Some may have not known Mr.Harris was not plugged into the Internet. Now they do. That may have been a disadvantage to the man.

And again,the last thing I want to appear as being is rude to the memory of your friend and Mrs. Birchwood's friend as well or the work of Mr.Harris. Thats absolutely not my intention at all.

I hope you "see" what I mean in this case and thanks very much for the post once again.

[Nina Brown]

Ann Stephenson was discovered by Chris Scott in the 1891 census as a cook born in Thorne.

RDS was listed as single in the 1891 census and widowed in the 1901 census. Therefore, his wife must have died sometime between the 1891 and 1901.

The Ann Stephenson that I discovered was also a cook and her death prior to 1901 fits with RDS's listing as widowed. My research did not find any other matches as close as this. There can still be doubt as there is no listing of her husband on her death certificate. Therefore, I plan to further research this as time allows and will post any new findings here.

Report on the death of Ann Stephenson in 1896
GAS POISONING AT HAMPSTEAD. At Hampstead Dispensary, Dr. Danford Thomas held an inquest on Ann Stephenson, aged 53 years, and Kate Lydia Lane, aged 13 years, who were poisoned by gas at 96, Broadhurst-gardens. Mrs. Matilda Mackey said that the deceased had been in her employ as cook and housemaid respectively. Ann Stephenson had only been in her employment for a week, and did not thoroughly understand the working of the place, but Kate Lydia Lane had been there ten weeks, and knew the place well. The housemaid went to bed about half-past nine, and the cook followed about eleven, taking with her a safety lamp and a candle. In the morning it was witness’s habit to have a cup of tea in bed, but as this did not appear she became suspicious, and went to the servants’ room. On opening the door she was driven back by a strong volume of gas. After this had cleared off a little witness went into the room and flung open the window. It was then discovered that Ann Stephenson was dead, while Lane was in an unconscious condition. Witness had the latter at once removed to a room downstairs, but she died shortly after. By the coroner: The gas was turned full on, but it was an act of disobedience if the servants had done it, as they had been strictly forbidden to do so, the gas bracket not being in proper order, and they had been told never to use it. Mr. E Mackey, a land agent, said that since the fatality he had examined the gas bracket, and found that the stopping which had been put in to prevent the flow of gas had become slightly shifted. A verdict of "Accidental death" was returned in both cases.

Anne Stephenson died in the June quarter of 1896 in Hampstead, greater London, Middlesex - Volume 1A, Page 429 - age 55 The age must be an error in transcription as her age was listed as 53 at the inquest. According to the census’ with the exception of 1891 where the age was obviously off, her age would have been 52 in 1896. However her actual age, according to her birth in Thorne in 1842, would be 53 at the time of her death. She would have turned 54 in Sept. of 1896.

Nina ;)


Thanks very much Nina....and good to see you again !!;) ;) ;)

[Peter Birchwood]

[QUOTE=Nina Thomas]Ann Stephenson was discovered by Chris Scott in the 1891 census as a cook born in Thorne.

RDS was listed as single in the 1891 census and widowed in the 1901 census. Therefore, his wife must have died sometime between the 1891 and 1901.

It's not safe to assume that because D'Onston states that he's single in 1891, that his wife was necesarily alive at that point. He's obviously lying because he should have listed himself as married widowed or divorced, the first two being much more likely. The last date Ann Stephenson is likely to be alive is at the time of the 1881 census although Melvin has her living as late as 1886.
The Deary family of Thorne, Yorkshire comprise:
Charles Deary born 1805 Norwich, master shoe maker
Frances Deary born 1812 Tadcaster, Yorks. wife
Nancy Deary born 1841 Thorne, outdoor servant, daughter.
Ann Deary born 1842 Thorne daughter
Sarah born 1845 Thorne daughter
Charles L. born 1848 Thorne.

Sarah is a Cook at the house of John Dix, surgeon at Sculcoates in 1871
Nancy is a general servan at Goole in 1861

[How Brown]

Dear Peter:

As a professional and highly qualified geneaologist, what procedures would you suggest be undertaken to determine if the woman Nina found is in fact the estranged wife of RDS ?

The date of Deary's last known whereabouts are or should be known by all RDS enthusiasts. Mr.Harris did state that in The True Face and he did say 1886.

However,in another book that deals with Stephenson,the last known date of her whereabouts is given as 1887. Some may feel this is an oversight or error. I don't.

I think that the date of 1887 in that other book was given to coincide with the Regents Canal torso/murder victim of that year in order to nudge the reader along to put two and two together. Then again,thats just my opinion.:)

Could you elaborate on what capacity Mr.Harris found her whereabouts for in 1886 ? Via census or otherwise ? Thanks !

[Maria Birchwood]

Dear Howard,

Your request is taken with due consideration and Peter will get back to you once he has some moments to spare. --He is working on another large case this morning-- and organizing the troops to hit the streets of London with the task to beat the competition--Last week was excellent but we have to do the same miracle every week !

Your friend

-Maria