Deeming Photo Comparison

[Mike Covell]

The Illustrated Police News etc on Saturday April 16th 1892 ran the following article with the heading "Is Deeming Jack the Ripper?" This article featured an illustration of Deeming, alongside the man claimed by George Hutchinson to have accompanied Mary Kelly into Millers-Court.

This thread is not to argue the candidacy of Deeming as Jack, but to present, for the first time, the illustration and the photo it was taken from.

[Mike Covell]

The following photo is a studio portrait of Deeming, with no known date.

[Howard Brown]

Speaking of photos of Deeming...the photo found below in the seminal "Letters From Hell" ( by SPE/Skinner) found on page 214 has always been a mystery to me, ever since I first saw it.
Sorry to sidetrack the thread for a minute here, Mike.


http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/September%202010%20Forums/fd.jpg

[Debra Arif]

I remember thinking that the artist had deliberately drawn astrachan man with Deeming's features.

[Mike Covell]

I thought that too Debs when I first saw this image on the front of J. S. O'Sullivan's The Trial of F. B. Deeming, Melbourne, 1892. The image appears in better clarity in Gurvich and Wray's The Scarlet Thread.

Howard, it was said that Deeming had hacked his facial hair away with a piece of glass whilst in prison in Australia, leaving the authorities shocked. I have only ever seen this image in Letters From Hell.

[Debra Arif]

Mike, astrachan man is definitely a bit less wide eyed and mad looking in the 1892 Deeming comparison than he was in the original Nov 1888 IPN version.

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[Mike Covell]

His nose and chin have altered too.

[Adam Went]

Mike:

There's a photo somewhere of Deeming after his second arrest in April 1892, when he was recaptured....he'd altered his appearance to try and get away with it and was clean shaven. Think I sent you a copy a while back if you still have it, but now I can't find it myself! Shall have to try and dig it out. Have to say I don't think he bears much resemblance to Astrakhan, though.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Mike Covell]

Hi Adam, I will have a look for it, I have the Hull Police Photo from 1890 after his arrest for fraud, it's actually by William Barry of Park-street in Hull, and the Hull Police got a copy.

I will have a look for the 1892 image.

I also aquired the death certificates of Frederick Bailey Deeming's mother and father this week if your interested in seeing them.

[Nemo]

Here's a number of illustrations from the Victoria Australia website

I don't think you'll find anyone dressing as close to Astrakhan as Deeming in that pic

http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/deeming/documents/SROWACons430File413-1892.htm

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I was going to put up a pic of his death-mask but it's not very life-like...boom boom

[Adam Went]

Hey guys,

The photo i'm talking about from 1892 is virtually identical to the second one from the top of Nemo's last post (great stuff by the way, Nemo!) - in fact, it may well be the very same photo, just with a different tint and slightly closer up.

Anybody that's interested who has old copies of Ripperologist can see the photo i'm talking about in my piece from Issue #89 back in February 2008....

Mike, that sounds great. I'd love to take a look if you're willing to share them. Thanks!

Cheers,
Adam.

[Chris G.]

Speaking of photos of Deeming...the photo found below in the seminal "Letters From Hell" ( by SPE/Skinner) found on page 214 has always been a mystery to me, ever since I first saw it.
Sorry to sidetrack the thread for a minute here, Mike.


http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/September%202010%20Forums/fd.jpg

In my opinion the above guy's mouth looks too big and the chin too small to be Deeming. Compare with this--

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8302/7949587664_c61213d004_o.jpg

[Nemo]

Hi Chris

You might be interested in this thread in which Stewart Evans explains the history of the photo and a possibility of error - though I think it's him

It is the one taken in his condemned cell to show that his hair had turned white

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=12909&

[Chris G.]

Hi Chris

You might be interested in this thread in which Stewart Evans explains the history of the photo and a possibility of error - though I think it's him

It is the one taken in his condemned cell to show that his hair had turned white

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=12909&

Okay, thanks, Nemo. I will then accept that the photograph is of Deeming before he was topped. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7231/7302173352_ecdefcfb97_o.gif

It should be noted also that the white-haired man has his head leaning downward compared to the sepia photograph of Deeming, which could be masking similarity of the chin, and also the shadow round his mouth makes his mouth look different.

Best regards

Chris

[Howard Brown]

I still doubt that the photo ( the one SPE/Skinner put in Letters from Hell ) and the other one are of the same people.
The ears are different...and at first glance, the one in LFH looks like an Indian.
The nose is different too.

[Chris G.]

I still doubt that the photo ( the one SPE/Skinner put in Letters from Hell ) and the other one are of the same people.
The ears are different...and at first glance, the one in LFH looks like an Indian.
The nose is different too.

Hi How

Actually I thought that the ears looked similar albeit again that the visible ear in the photo of the white-haired man is at an angle. By the way, another thought is that Deeming, being a vain creature, might have tinted his hair before his arrest, and it grew out while he was in jail. My maternal grandfather used "Morgan's Pomade" (http://www.morganspomade.co.uk/about1.html), which gave his hair a copper tint.

Best regards

Chris

[Debra Arif]

I still doubt that the photo ( the one SPE/Skinner put in Letters from Hell ) and the other one are of the same people.
The ears are different...and at first glance, the one in LFH looks like an Indian.
The nose is different too.

Yes, How, it's the lobe thing again that came up recently with the new Tumblety pic isn't it? They seem to attach to the head differently in these two pics also ? Although I do think the nose and mouth look similar so maybe it is just the angle of the pic...in that case then I will have to reconsider what I said about the two Tumblety photographs...maybe.