Savage on Donston

[How Brown]

This thread is for the work done by John Savage...Our Man From Hull.....and the work he is doing on the background and family of Robert Stephenson.
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REPORT OF VISIT TO GRAVEYARD, ST. PAUL’S CHURCH TICKTON 18/02/06
This church is located about half a mile from Hull Bridge House and appears to have been the family church of the Stephensons. The graves are in a group of six located on the eastern side of the church [on the left in main picture]. With one other grave about 15 yards to the north. There are three large headstones and facing them are three headstones all bearing crosses [see picture].
Of the three large headstones the one on the left bears the inscription "In affectionate remembrance of Sarah Jane the beloved wife of William Stephenson departed this life November 5th. 1882 aged 26 years. I sought the Lord and he heard me and delivered me from all my fears. Also Ernest son of the above died April 26th. 1883 aged 6 months".
The centre gravestone inscription reads " In affectionate remembrance of Mary Stephenson of Tickton who departed this life October 31st. 1883 aged 72 years also William Stephenson husband of the above who departed this life June 27th. 1891 aged 75 years."
The third of these gravestones is inscribed as follows "In affectionate remembrance of Thomas Stephenson of Tickton who died June 5th. 1894 aged 47 years. With Christ which is far better".
Turning now to the three headstones opposite (the ones with crosses), the one to the left reads "Sacred to the memory of John Bernard Stephenson who died October 25th. 1889 aged 27 years also of John Stephenson of Hull Bridge and Beverley father of the above who departed this life January 8th 1904 aged 67 years". NB. This is the John Stephenson who is the main subject of the Files at the Brynmor Jones Library.
The centre headstone is a simple wooden cross, which may well be of a later date than the inscription it, bears. The inscription reads, "March 30th. 1885 Harriet Emma Stephenson."
The headstone to the right is inscribed " Sacred to the memory of Richard Stephenson died April 23rd. 1908 aged 64 years. James Stephenson who died May 17th. 1915 aged 73 years and Robert Ranby Stephenson died April 20th. 1919 aged 80 years, sons of John and Elizabeth Stephenson of Hull Bridge"
Further to the right is the base of another headstone, which may once have also born a cross but now broken off. The inscription reads "Sacred to the memory of Mary Elizabeth wife of Arthur Stephenson of Hull Bridge" I was unable to make out the date as this base has sunk too far into the ground.
The remaining grave is to the north of the above and is inscribed "To the dear memory of Arthur Stephenson born at Hull Bridge December 18th. 1852 died Beverley April 6th 1917. Also of Norah beloved wife of Arthur Stephenson born Barton on Humber October 27th. 1872 died at London September 19th 1927"
Further away at the far end of the village is a small row of Almshouses dated 1872. [See photograph]. These bear a plaque which reads " developed by Housemartin for the trustees of Almshouse charity of Elizabeth Stephenson Tickton built 1872 refurbished 1990 officially opened by James Cran MP 25th. January 1991"
On the wall to the left are some intertwined initials that appear to be "JES".
Conclusion: The above data contains information of names and dates which may perhaps be useful in the future; of immediate interest is Thomas Stephenson who may have been a solicitor. [ Donston claimed to have a cousin who was a well to do solicitor "in the north"] I shall be researching further.
John Savage Hull 20th. February 2006.

[How Brown]

photo copyright @ John Savage

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/Tickton2_005.jpg

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/Tickton2_006.jpg

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/Tickton2_007.jpg

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/Tickton2_008.jpg

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/Tickton2_015.jpg

[John Savage]

Hi Howard,

In his Book “The True Face of JTR” Melvin Harris recalls the story of Donston having been shot, whilst out sailing round Flamborough Head shooting sea birds.
Harris found newspaper reports in the Bridlington local press, but was unable to find any mention in the Hull newspapers, and came to the conclusion that the news was withheld because a relative was an owner of Hull Newspapers. As readers of the FROM HULL thread on the Casebook will know there was a newspaper owner called William Stephenson publishing in Hull at this time, although I have been unable to establish any family connection.

Alas Mr. Harris got it wrong, the story was published in a Hull Newspaper, exactly the same one mentioned by Donston, I found it at the Hull Central Library yesterday and the following transcription is, I believe, the first time this report has been seen.

I would also like to say that it might not simply be an error on the part of Mr. Harris or his researcher Andy Aliffe, as this newspaper has been the subject of a recent scheme to re-record its content on microfilm, done jointly by Colindale and Hull Libraries. The quality of reproduction of this particular page is very poor, but I have been able to make the following transcription:

The Eastern Morning News and Hull Advertiser, Monday July 13, 1868 [third edition]

SERIOUS ACCIDENT TO A HULL GENTLEMAN

On Tuesday afternoon last Mr. R.D.O. Stephenson of Her Majesty’s Customs at this port, while cruising off Flamborough, on board the yacht Flying Scud, met with a serious accident. The party on board were shooting seabirds and Mr. Stephenson was standing just abaft the mast, waiting for a shot when a boatman belonging to the yacht, who was behind him, took up one of the guns to fire and managed to explode prematurely, sending the whole charge into the back part of Mr. Stephenson’s thigh.
The heavy charge (1.1/2ozs of No2 shot) at a distance of about two yards tore a jagged hole, about 1.1/2inches wide and the same depth, and lodged itself in a lump near the bone, which, however it miraculously failed to injure. Fortunately a gentleman was on board who had some surgical experience, and immediately applied temporary bandages. The unfortunate gentleman was landed at Flamborough as soon as possible, and carried to the top of the cliff by a stalwart young fisherman. The only available conveyance being a fish cart, belonging to the landlord of the inn, it was filled with clean straw, and the patient conveyed to Bridlington; where under the skilful hands of Drs. Brett and Mackay, the greater part of the shot were removed. We are informed by eyewitnesses that the sang-froid with which the sufferer treated his terrible and painful wound was something remarkable, and excited the warmest admiration and sympathy in the bystanders. We understand that there is every hope of saving the limb. Provided that neither erysipelas nor gangrene (the two great dangers in gunshot wounds) make their appearance. Mr. Edwin Gray timber merchant, Hull, very kindly superintended the landing at Flamborough.

Rgds.
John

[John Savage]

Hi Again,

As I said in my above post, the print quality of this newspaper item is very poor, but I have scanned it in and reproduce it here as best I can.

The report is towards the bottom of the centre column.

[Robert Linford]

Great find, Professor.

Robert



Amen,Robert.:judge:

[John Savage]

Hi All,

From information given to me by Spiro I have been able to unearth three press reports rergarding Donton's brother Richard

Here is the first from The Hull News Saturday 7th. February 1874

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/Hull20NewsSatFeb7th20001A.jpg

[John Savage]

Here is the second report from The Hull News Saturday 14th. February 1874
http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/Hull20NewsSatFeb14th20001A.jpg

[John Savage]

Here is the third report from The Hull News Saturday 11th. April 1874

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/Hull20NewsSatApril11th20001A.jpg

[Robert Linford]

Good stuff, John and Spiro. The article says that Richard was in trouble again, so there's more about him at an earlier date, perhaps.

Also the article doesn't seem particularly friendly towards Richard.

The numbering in Church St was a mess, with the same number appearing on two different pages. Roe was there in 1871, but the building seems not to have had a number. It was about number 90.

Robert

[John Savage]

Hi All

I had a little time yesterday to call into the Bridlington Library to look for the newspaper articles mentioned by Harris regarding the Flamborough shooting.

I found the article in the “Bridlington Quay Observer, Advertising Medium and Weekly List of Visitors”; to give it it’s full title, of Thursday July 16th. 1868. It is reproduced below, and I hope it will satisfy Spiro’s curiosity about the initials.

For some reason I was unable to find the other article referred to by Harris in the Bridlington Free Press of 11th. July, I read this paper from cover to cover (about four pages) and could find no mention; perhaps I shall be able to go back again another day and have better luck.

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/Brid20Quay20Obs2016July20186820001A.jpg

[John Savage]

According to Harris the Bridlington Free Press of 11th. July 1868 mentions that Donston was taken on a cart from Flamborough to the Black Lion Hotel, which I take to mean the Black Lion Hotel at Bridlington. I might not be able to find a newspaper article, but thankfully can still find a pub, below is a picture of the Black Lion Hotel, High Street Bridlington, which I am presuming is the hostelry referred to.

[Spiro]

Hi John,

Thank you for posting the news report it's good to see it in the original and goes some way in confirming this aspect of Harris' and Aliffe's research into Donston. I hope you had time to stop for a glass or two at the Black Lion while there what a great place to sit around discussing Donston and his antics.

It is interesting that Donston was experimenting with an alias at such an early date and I look forward to whatever you may be able to find as it lends some credence to the development of his thought and ideals.

As it's always welcome to have local knowledge, your efforts and important discoveries on Donston's Hull background are appreciated.

Spiro

[John Savage]

Hi All,

Yesterday being a beautiful sunny day, work was cancelled for the afternoon and I headed over to Bridlington Public Library, were I found the article from the Bridlington Free Press of 11th. July 1868 [page2 col.D].

Also found a few other pieces of info which may be of interest in following posts.

[John Savage]

Compare the above with Donston’s own account in W.T. Stead Review of Reviews:

“The next year after that passed rapidly for me until the first week in July, when I was shot dangerously in the thigh by a fisherman named Thomas Piles, of Hull, a reputed smuggler. A party of four of us had hired his 10-ton yawl to go yachting around the Yorkshire coast, and amuse ourselves by shooting sea-birds amongst the millions of them at Flamborough Head. The third or fourth day out I was shot in the right thigh by the skipper Piles; and the day after one and a quarter ounce of No.2 shot were cut therefrom by the coastguard surgeon at Bridlington Quay”.

The inference here is that Donston and friends had hired the yawl in Hull to sail to Flamborough, a distance incidentally of about 50 miles, and that the cruise was to last for several days. In fact the yawl was hired for a day trip to Flamborough from Bridlington, a distance of about 4 miles. According to Donston he was shot by the skipper Piles, but from the above newspaper report we can see that was not so, he was shot by his friend, unnamed in this report, but from what we have read in the Bridlington Quay Observer most probably Edwin Gray.

Although I did not have time to find any trace of this fisherman Thomas Piles, I did find some evidence that a family with the surname Piles resided in Bridlington in the early part of the 19th. Centaury.

[John Savage]

Further research has enabled me to confirm that the Black Lion Hotel to which Donston was taken is indeed the one in the photograph I posted earlier.

I also came across the following advertisement for the hotel in the same edition of the Bridlington Free Press

[John Savage]

It was also the practice to publish in both newspapers lists of visitors staying in the resort that week. The following appeared in the Bridlington Free Press of 11th July 1868 and also the edition of 18th. July 1868. It was not listed in the following two weeks.

[John Savage]

Also in the same newspaper of the same date was an intrigueing snippet, and I cannot help wondering if it gave old sudden death an idea.

[John Savage]

As I said earlier I found some slight information of a family named Pyles listed in a publication entitled "Bridlington Priory Monumental Inscriptions". Bridlington Priory being the main church in the old town, quite close to the Black Lion. The booklet published by the East Yorkshire Family History Society.

[John Savage]

From the Bridlington Free Press article it becomes clear that Donston sailed out of Bridlington Quay [now called Bridlington Harbour] so I thought it would be nice to show a picture of same. Things probably have not changed too much since Donston's day as the harbour was built, I beleive , in the 18th. centuary.

[John Savage]

And finally, the one that got away.

[John Savage]

Hi All

Whilst Rummageing around the library looking for information of anyone called Stephenson being a member of the town council, I came across the following in a small booklet entitled "Borough of Kingston Upon Hull Yearbook, For The Use Of Councillors 1875-6"

It may or may not be one of the Stephensons we are interested in, it is too early to say, but as Harris mentions Richard Stephenson being a Collector of Dues, I thought it of interest.

[How Brown]

John:

I told my daughter that the gull was your pet....she got excited.

Good work,old bean.:thumbsupbud:

[John Savage]

Hi All,

I have today been at the library trying to track down information on Donston;'s birthplace and am posting below the results of this search. It may help in the future to find a decent photograph of this house.


35 CHARLES STREET.

Notes taken from: “A Walk Right Back” A Local History Workshop Walk”, led by Mike (Ozzy) Ayres and Chris Ketchell. (Local Studies Library ref L.9.7)

Charles Street was originally begun by the Rev. Charles Jarret c1804.
Number 35 which was on the west side of Charles Street, and at the north end between Francis Street West and Raywell Street would seem to have been built around 1820-30. The Houses in this part of Charles Street may have been renumbered at some time as there is occasional reference to there being a number 34and a half. However number 35 had by the twentieth century become a shop, with Arthur Maynard selling fruit, until sometime between 1926-29 it became the premises of The West Riding WallPaper Co. who remained the occupants until the 1940’s. By the 1960’s this shop had been combined with number 36 by Carlines grocery store. The buildings were demolished in the 1980’s

Number 37 became a grocery shop in 1913 being a branch of William Jackson & Son (a well known local name until 2005 when they were taken over by J. Sainsbury Ltd). The shop was taken over in later years by the Home & Colonial Stores and also a pork butcher by the name of A. Minns. The original façade of 1913 was revealed as the shop was being demolished in the 1980’s.

A petition by the property owners of Charles Street, dated 28th. December 1830, asking the Commissioners of the Parish of Sculcoates to have the street paved includes the name of William Dawber.

As these buildings lasted much longer than I had at first realised it is a good chance that somewhere there will exist photographs that will give us some idea of what number 35 looked like.

Rgds
John

[Robert Linford]

Hi John

thanks for that, and thanks for transcribing it!

robert

[John Savage]

The following 2 pics are taken from the above publication. My apologies if they are a little unclear as they are scans of photocopies.

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/3520Charles20Streetbw220001A.jpg
http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/3720Charles20Streetbw20001.jpg

[John Savage]

The following pic shows the site of number 35 as it is today.
The building on the right of the picture is were nos. 34-39 would have stood.

[How Brown]

Good effort John...Nice photos.:thumbsupbud:

[John Savage]

Hi All,

Earlier in this thread I posted some details of a court case concerning Richard Stephenson jnr. who had been trying to evict some tennants from a property he claimed to own.

Whilst at the City Archive today I came across the original depositions and evidence, and having read through this file the details of the case are basically the same as previously posted. The only difference being that I found a letter from Richard jnr. giving the tennants formal notice. For clarity here is a transcription:

Hull 12 Jan 1874

Three weeks having elapsed since I requested you to leave the house now occupied by you ( being a portion of the Chapel premises in Church Street) on account of its being required for alterations.
I hereby give you notice that I shall require the key to be delivered up by noon on Saturday next, failing which you will have to pay the sum of five shillings per week rent.

[signed] Rd. Stephenson Jnr.

A photograph of the file showing a rent book, the letter of Richard Stephenson and the depositions.:

[John Savage]

WATER BAILIFF AND COLLECTOR OF DUES.

I have today been at the Hull City Archives and examining documents on this subject. It would appear that the town council, for the purpose of collecting dues from ships using the port, employed the water bailiff. A document posted below, from the Administration History of Water Bailiffs, catalogue file No. 56 –Ref: WB page 2 gives further information. Richard Stephenson Snr. would appear to have taken this position from 1866 until at least 1882 when an entry in Whites Directory 1882 lists Richard Stephenson water bailiff Custom House, and residing at 48 Spring Street. It is interesting to note that at this time he was working from the Custom House, as I would expect a council worker to have been using council premises.

In his book “The True Face of Jack the Ripper” Melvin Harris states “By 1867 his father was not only a prominent manufacturer but held the elected post of Collector of Hull Corporation Dues – a post equivalent to City Treasurer”. This gives the impression that Stephenson was an elected person, but is perhaps a little misleading. The City Archive holds a letter from Richard accepting the position and it is reproduced below. The Wording is as follows:

Sculcoates 12th. Jan 1866

Gentlemen,
I beg to thank you for the honour you have done me in electing me to the office of Water Bailiff and Receiver of Corporation Dues. It will be my constant endeavour to merit the confidence thus reposed in me.
NB. My sureties are,
Mr. Robt. Dawber, Linnaeus Street.
“ J. Shirley Richardson, Parliament Street.

I am Gentlemen,
Your most ob. Svt.
Richard Stephenson.

To The Mayor
Aldermen and Councillors
Kingston Upon Hull.

…………………………………………

From this it can be seen that the election to the post was simply a matter of members of the Council voting on a suitable candidate to fill the post, rather than an election carried out by the voters of the town. That he was employed, is made clear by the entries in the Borough of Kingston upon Hull Year books for the use of the Council, for the years 1877-78 and 1878-79 reproduced below. It will be seen from these that his wage of £120 per annum, reduced in the later year to £100 per annum was on par with the Inspector of Weights and Measures and the Market Keeper. I do not see how this makes him equivalent to the City Treasurer.

It may be interesting to note that the Yearbooks also mention that Kilburne King MD, the doctor who attended Donston after the Flamborough shooting, was also a councillor, twice Lord Mayor, Alderman and Deputy Mayor.

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/City20ArchiveWaterBailiff20001A.jpg

[John Savage]

Extract from City Council Year Book 18877-78:

[John Savage]

Extract from City Council Year Book 1878-79:

[John Savage]

Letter of Acceptance from Richard Stephenson Snr.

[How Brown]

As always,solid additions to the data John.

I kick myself a little in the ass for not asking you before if you intended to go back to the Hull Archives.

Andy Aliffe mentioned some sort of report which gave the periodical grading or evaluation of employees at Customs House and that Donston's evaluations were among the documents.

I've heard them recited in audio format and actually have them now...but not copies of it in written form.

If you decide to go again,fine. If not,I'll listen to the tape I have this weekend and write down what I have on tape.

Thanks again John ;) Nice work as always.

[John Savage]

Hi Howard,

I am afraid I can only get to the City Archives ocassionally, as their opening hours are somewhat limited, but what you say is very interesting and if you can give me sufficient detail to track them down, I will certainly have a look.

Rgds
John

[How Brown]

That sounds good,John.

Andy skimmed through the evaluations,but noted the remarks which preceded his dismissal.

I'll get on it soon sor...

[Robert Linford]

Tremendous stuff, John!

Robert

[Robert Linford]

John Shirley Richardson was a bank cashier and his wife was Isabella Dawber Richardson.

Robert

[How Brown]

Robert:

Isabella Dawber was Donston's mom's name too,wasn't it.

I'm too tired to look right now. I'm right, right?

[Robert Linford]

How, yes, and the cashier's wife was, I believe, Donston's sister. So the old man's son-in-law was providing surety.

Robert

[John Savage]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the information on John Shirley Richardson, I don't suppose you know which bank he worked for?

I only ask because there was a John Rayner who is recorded as manager of the Union Bank in 1872-73, and I have sometimes wondered if he was the other half of Rayner Stephenson & Co.

The name Richardson has also cropped up before I think, unfortunately I cannot quite remember were, but doubtless it will turn up.

Rgds
John

[Robert Linford]

Hi John

It was Yorkshire Bank and Co.

RJ found an Ada Louisa Richardson, but I think it was a dead end.

Robert

[Spiro]

Great work John...:thumbsupbud:

[John Savage]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the information. If you go back to my post of 05/06/06 12.16 [page 2 of this thread] You will see Donston listed at the Black Lion Hotel together with a Mrs. S. Richardson and Miss Richardson.
Coincidence? What do you reckon.

Rgds
John

[How Brown]

RJ found an Ada Louisa Richardson, but I think it was a dead end.

"Ada" huh ?:rolleyes:

[Robert Linford]

Hi John

Yes, I reckon that was his family.

Robert

[John Savage]

Hi All,

The following extracts from "Stephenson's Hull Directory 1848", give a little more detail of what the job of water bailiff would have entailed. It can be seen that some off the dues were payable to the Hull Dock Company via the Customs House, whilst others were payable the Hull Corporation.

[John Savage]

Hi All,

Ithas often been discussed if Donston had any medical qualifications, and to be honest I really do not know, however the following entry from "The Victoria History of the East Roding [O.U. Press 1969] show that there is at least the possibility of his having gained some basic medical schooling.

[John Savage]

Hi All,

I have been digging around for more information on the Hull Medical School, as I think it may be important to Donston's claim to be qualified as a doctor. This first post is from a handwritten manuscript, so I have provided a transcript, as well as the original.

FROM: PUBLIC BUILDINGS AND INSTITUTIONS OF HULL VOL. 1 BY A.E. TROUT (MANUSCRIPT c1930)

Hull Educ. Week Handbook 1924.

SCHOOL OF ANATOMY – KINGSTON SQUARE

This was erected in 1832 in the Grecian style as the Hull & East Riding School for Anatomy and Medicine (or Hull Medical Institution) and pupils studying here were qualified for various medical examinations. Still in use in 1864 but was afterwards obtained by the Hull Blind Institution (p.vol) and when that institution was removed to Newland (p.vol), the Hull Trades and Labour Council converted it into a club.

[John Savage]

The following article is from the Eastern Morning News of 22nd. October 1927, it records an address given by Mr. T Sheppard who was the founder and curator of the city's museums, so I beleive we can presume him to be an authortity on his subject. The copies I was able to obtain from the library were not of sufficient quality to put up here so I have made a transcription.

I hope I may be forgiven for quoting the entire lengthy article, but I think it may be of interest:-


Medical Men in the Past Century




Some Hull Memories Recalled


……………………….
Mr. Sheppard’s Address


Addressing the members of the Hull branch of the British Medical Association Mr. T. Sheppard said it was interesting comparing the conditions which prevailed in Hull a century ago in the medical profession with those which obtain today. Then the Medical men played a very prominent part in the towns’ scientific, municipal and social life: The Literary and Philosophical Society, which then really was literary and philosophical, was founded principally by the medical profession. Its museum was very largely dominated by the osteological, anatomical and zoological preparations likely to be of use to those in, or about to enter, the profession.

Today the entrance hall to its successor, the Municipal Museum, is decorated by the busts of former Hull worthies, which include Doctors Gibson, King, Horner, Lunn and Stonehouse.

Early Records


On looking at the early records of most of the institutions we find the same thing: the Subscription Library, the Hull Infirmary, and so on. We find also that the medical men met periodically for mutual studies, and there was a prominent Hull Microscopical Society and Hull Anthropological Society, both of which were largely composed of members of the medical profession. As evidence of the then great scientific interest generally, we had zoological gardens, botanic gardens, archery clubs, etc., where these men obtained recreation and exercise.

In those days (and since) no doctor would be seen in the streets without his frock coat, top hat, and beard, and he usually had his antique four-wheeled cab often drawn by a “hoss” suffering in the throes of Osmosis. There was also a strong club of coin collectors who vied with each other in securing rare specimens. The occupation of collecting one’s coins has not ceased with the medical profession, as any patient today knows at the quarter’s ending.

The “bedroom manner” in those days must have added a charm when the doctor could exhibit to his patient some new coin or medal which he had secured, or he could talk of a recent lecture at the Anthropological Society when the question of the characteristics of the crania of the natives of Honolulu had been under discussion, or at the Microscopical Society when new diatoms from a ditch in Dairycoates had been described, or of the Zoological Gardens where a new den had been opened for Reynard the Fox, or the Botanic Gardens where there was a fine growth of Taraxacum offinale, and the first primrose.

The Old School


Today what would a doctor do if he had not Morris-Cowley, or was not a scratch man at golf, or could not discuss the latest inquest?

An institution connected with the profession, pure and simple (if such words can be used in description of doctors0 was the old Hull Medical School, the date of the formation of which varies with different writers.

Originally the Medical School was in a building in Cannon Street, possibly one of the few large residential houses then in that neighbourhood. Later a piece of waste land, in what is now Kingston Square, was secured, and a building after the style of the Egyptian Hall in London was erected, and known as the Hull Medical School. Its style was severe, decorated with urns and other signs of the profession, and in the building lectures were given, and the students had an opportunity of studying anatomy, Certificates were presented to those who had attended a certain number of lectures. These certificates were very elaborately engraved with views of the building, etc., and one of them has recently been given to us by probably the last surviving student at this school, my old friend Dr. Hollingworth, who brought most of my brothers and sisters into this world.

A silver medal was also issued, the only copy of which I know being in the possession of Mr. W. Sykes. This on the obverse bears a bust of Esculapius above a wreath, the ribbons of which bear the words “Instituted A.D. 1821”, the lettering being “Hull Medical and Chirurgical Society”. On the reverse is a wreath of oak leaves, in the centre of which is the staff and serpent, and the words “Prize Medal”, room being left round the edge for the name of the recipient.

Lecturers


Records relating to this institution are somewhat scattered, but we find from Greenwood’s Picture of Hull (1835) that “In 1831 (this should be 1821) chiefly through the exertions of Dr. Alderson a body of medical men met for the purpose of establishing an institution whereby young men in the vicinity might get all the advantages at home which previously were only to be obtained in London, and a few other medical colleges in distant towns. Dr. Alderson’s son (later Sir James) delivered the first lecture, which with other succeeding ones, proved to be such a success that the room they occupied was found to be too small. In consequence of this, ground was purchased in Kingston Square, on which the present building was erected from plans furnished by Mr. Abrahams, architect, of London. “This institution…. Is becoming daily more useful and more highly appreciated….etc. Proprietors Dr. Alderson, Messrs. Robert, Craven, Wallis, and Hardy”

From Stephenson’s Directory of Hull for 1842 we gather: “Hull and East Riding School of Medicine and anatomy, Kingston Square. Lectures: - Anatomy, Physiology and Pathology. Mr Wallis; Chemistry, Mr. J.D. Sollit; Materia Medica, Mr. Cooper; Principles and Practice of Surgery, Dr. Alderson; Practice of Midwifery, Mr. Hardy; Principles and Practice of Surgery, Mr. R. Craven”.

Tindall Wildridge’s Old and New Hull (1884) states that “For many years Dr. Kelburne King, afterwards Mayor of Hull, filled the office of Lecturer on Anatomy at the Medical College, Hull. R.M. Craven (Sheriff of Hull in 1879) was ***** **** Lecturer on Anatomy at the Hull Medical School, previous to its dissolution in 1870”.


Changed Use.

The building subsequently became the Blind Institute, and at present is a Labour Hall.

From Greenwood’s Picture of Hull also we learn that in addition to this Medical School “The refuge for the insane is in Boteler Street, Cannon Street, Sculcoates, established in the year 1814 by the late Dr. Alderson and Mr. Ellis, surgeon. It is capable of containing 100 patients. It is now conducted by Dr. Alderson (the son and successor of the former gentleman) and Mr. Casson, surgeon. The magistrates of the East Riding of Yorkshire direct all pauper lunatics to be placed here having expressed their approbation of it, by which this part of the country was saved the expense of erecting a pauper lunatic asylum…. The proprietors have recently fitted up Summergangs Hall for the reception of female patients. This building is pleasantly situated on the Holderness Road, in the township of Sculcoates and is well adapted for the purpose to which it is applied”.

Quite possibly the early days of the Medical School were carried on in connection with this former building.

I understand from Dr. Rockliffe that Drs, Daley, Elliot and King, originally came to Hull on the staff of the Medical School and that the supply of material for the dissecting rooms in the days of “body snatching” was obtained in the following way: - “The principal and practically only cab proprietor in Hull in those days (bar Old “Wing”, now Paragon Station stables – who ran the four in hand “mails” to everywhere) was “Chafer”, whose stables ran through the present Hull Brewery, from Grimston Street to Jarrett Street. Being, I believe, also the only undertaker, hearses and funeral cortege were nothing uncommon to the public eye, but after dark a not infrequent apparition of a man surrounded by a huge cloak carrying the necessary over his shoulder might have been seen coming out of the yard to the Medical School in Kingston Square just opposite; in those days the only way of obtaining subjects. When we, the Hull Blind Institution, altered the premises a large quantity of bones were found under the floor of the old dissecting room, showing the laxity of procedure in days gone by”.

[Robert Linford]

John, this 1867 item shows that the Hull School of Medicine was highly regarded.

Robert

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/MED20SCH20OCT20252067.jpg

[Robert Linford]

I should add that this is from an item on Cambridge ("the University").

[Robert Linford]

From a Gazette announcement, I was able to locate a James Milner, medical student, living Hull in 1861 and 2. Although neither the Gazette announcement nor the census entry say that he was actually a student at Hull School of Medicine, it's clear that, if he was, then the school took people of all ages - Milner's age was listed as 35 in 1861.

Robert

[Robert Linford]

And in fact by 1871 Milner was living in Surrey as a General Practitioner with some initials after his name.

Robert

[John Savage]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for that useful information.
The Eastern Morning News article tells us that certificates were issued for attending a certain number of lectures, if this was the case then records must have been kept, so the next step I think is to see if they still exist. By the way, did you notice that reference to Dr. Kilburne King?

But I am off on holiday now, for some sun, sea, beer, and perhaps a little practice on that skateboard Howard sent me.

Rgds
John

[Robert Linford]

John, yes, enjoy the Julio Iglesias concerts.

There was another graduate of the school mentioned in the Times of the 60s. It seems to have been a perfectly good school - no Will Hay rubbish. It would be interesting to see if records still exist.

Robert

[Robert Linford]

I have now heard from Kath Webb, York NHS archivist :

“There are no extant records of students attending the Hull and East Riding School of Anatomy. However you may be able to find out the information you require via other sources of the period. For example, candidates taking the Licentiate of the Society of Apothecaries (qualification probably taken by most students attending Hull School) had to show certificates of courses attended and where, and this was recorded in the registers of licenciates by the Society of Apothecaries. These are held at the Guidhall Library in London. Another source might be the printed Medical Directories published every year from 1847 - sometimes entries indicated place of study (though detail in entries varied).
The Guidhall Library has an on-line leaflet on tracing medics, which might be helpful:
http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/apoths.htm”

[John Savage]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for that excellant information, and I think we have a good chance of proving if old sudden death evry went to the Hull Medical School. I shall be onto it as soon as I get back.

In the meantime you keep up the good work, and I´ll keep my feet up in the sun!

Rgds
John

[Robert Linford]

Pah! Spain? It's all a load of Boleros.

[John Savage]

Hi All,

Not much remains of the Hull Medical School today, as far as I can ascertain the building suffered during the blitz, and was for many years used as a car park, the only part left standing was the shell of the front entrance and during the 1980's the site was turned into apartments and the old entrance retained.

The photograph below is of the site now and the new buildings occupy what was the site of the Hull Medical School.
Attached Images

[John Savage]

Hi All,

Robert Linford has come up with some very interesting information and has sent me the below clipping from The London Gazette of Feb. 24 1874.

It looks like Richard jnr. (Donston's brother) became bankrupt. I am convinced that we have the right guy for the following reasons:

Jones Mercantile Directory of Hull 1863-4 lists Rayner Stephenson, ship brokers & commission agents, Swedish Chambers, 19 High Street.

Buchanon's Directory of Hull 1872-3 lists Rayner Stephenson & Co. Salt and Timber merchants, 157 High Street.

The solicitor mentioned in the bankruptcy (Mr. Hearfield) is also mentioned in the court case of 1874 when Richard tried to gain possesion of a house in Church Street. (see earlier post in this thread).

I shall be checking the local newspapers for further information.

[How Brown]

Great work Robert and John...:thumbsupbud:

He went bankrupt at a very early age it appears...

Richard was 34 in 1874.

[Robert Linford]

Hi How

The impression I get is that people in the LVP could go bankrupt and then return with alarming regularity. A bit like some JTR theories!:)

Robert

[How Brown]

True,true,Robert...

One question....

In the LVP, when one went bankrupt,did they have to have money in order to GO bankrupt?

For some this may sound like a silly question...why go bankrupt if you have money ?

But here in the USA, you MUST have at least around $1,000 to go bankrupt. The money goes to the lawyer to file,the work necessary to write up the financial report of the client,the court fees,etc..

If thats the case,that in the LVP,like now in the States,that one had to have money....credit to the bakrupt party ordinarily is not allowed for a period of seven years ( of course,here in the States,as soon as one goes bankrupt,one is inundated with low interest credit card offers in the mail.).

This makes me wonder what sort of work Richard had post-bankruptcy. Possibly a position for Donston yet unknown to any of us.

His age relative to Donston has always made me think that he,along with Mama Stephenson,were the financial supplicants to Sudden Death in Donstons' 1870 period.

More to come, I am sure.

[Robert Linford]

Hi How

I don't know whether you had to have money to see a lawyer prior to going bankrupt. One thing I do know though, is that the lawyer will always be paid!

Robert

[How Brown]

Robert:

Exactly...I know people who went bankrupt and had to borrow money in order to go bankrupt. They were found incapable of absorbing their debt....and yet,of course, had to pay the lawyer up front before the trial.

This isn't really important perhaps in the scheme of things,but as you and Johnny know,my interest in the financial life of Donston is pretty high priority,if it wasn't to previous Stephensonians.

Donston could not have existed even as a existentialist for long without his creature comforts....pharmaceuticals and booze. Thems the facts. He had to have financial assistance in order to live even marginally.

In addition,his bouncing around ( just imagine moving around NINE times in three years with only two trunks to your name...) may also hide the fact that checks were written on someone else's name and reputation other than the legitimate and known sources for his finances ( Stead,for one.... and Cremers for another,as well as that hot looking Mabel Collins ).

No offense to Donston..... who I see as a victim of circumstances and decisions, as well as a self-defeating substance abuser caught in the whirlwind of these factors.... but his moving around is very similar to a crack head or drug addict who after spending all the money given to him for creature comforts has to move on down the line to his next digs.

And how to accomplish that,we ask...

The fact that Collins had material on Stephenson in the Cook vs.Stephenson trial which was immediately thrown out of Marylebone Court in 1891 has made me wonder if Stephenson did not try blackmail once or twice to success. In fact, the fact that Collins had material on Stephenson may have been a counter-measure to the possibility that Stephenson's possessing of letters from Collins was in fact,a blackmail scheme that was neutralized by Collins showing up at Marlyebone. Stephenson could ill afford to have HIS possible letters....and not necessarily letters against Collins,but someone from the past....presented as counter evidence. Stephenson's bluff had been called by Collins and she won. Remember that.

We have yet to consider that Stephenson may have worked on another newspaper as a office editor or journalist....or another similar-to-Customs House-position as a clerk.

We forget, I think, that Stephenson was a clerk for 5 years. Why not resume that occupation at another locale? Because he was fired for unspecified reasons,that does NOT mean he did not resume the position of desk jockey elsewhere and avoid the habits which caused his release at the previous job.....

[Robert Linford]

Hi How

Stephenson as blackmailer is an interesting conjecture. If that were to tie in with any journalist work, I guess he'd have been a gossip columnist or something like that.

I'd like to know more about Inspector Roots, for apart from backing up some of Donston's story about his life, he also said he'd known him for 20 years - since about the time Donston lost his Hull job, presumably? I'm just wondering why Donston would have known a policeman - who presumably would have served in several different locales - for 20 years. Maybe Donston was a crime journalist of some sort?

Robert

[Robert Linford]

Roots says that Donston always carried drugs to sober him (and stave off the DTs). The need to sober up suggests to me someone who did have periods of regular employment - whether he had to meet a journalistic deadline or just get to work on time. If he was drifting around and leading a hand to mouth existence, would there have been this need to be sober?

If he had to pay for the drugs, that would also suggest some pressing reason for sobering up - an alcoholic without regular work would probably just spend all the money on booze, and worry about tomorrow when it arrives.

Robert

[How Brown]

Robert:

Roots,as you mentioned,does mention his use of drugs and alcohol abuse...as well as the "medical degree" Stephenson told him about,which probably was as his trip to America,a no go.

Harris mentions a "New York diploma" which is quite frankly undocumented and rather annoying since its as most of Mr.Harris's material....sans reference.

I think that there is much to be read into what Roots stated,even if albeit a superficial statement for the benefit of his superiors. What he nonchalantly put down in his December report was what he recalled....and yet it doesn't mean that Donston continued this drug use for a long period of time AFTER the initial contact. Yes...he was admitted to the London Hospital in 1889 for chloralism....but there may have been a layoff from the drug between the period of roughly 1868 to 1889. I cannot fathom how the woman Anne Deary tolerated this use BEFORE marrying him,regardless of any affinity she had for him and whether this marriage was one of convienience or a morgantic marriage by Deary,hoping to recieve the benefits the prospective inheritor of all that seed crushing wealth Donston may have clung on privately as a means to live on.

That Stephenson was somewhat into drugs at the time of the original meeting or acquaintanceship with Roots and RDS appears to be factual,since it is one of the things Roots remembered after many years. Roots doesn't state that subsequent to the original meeting that they had any sort of meeting or dialogue between them.

One of the things I intend to discuss in an upcoming article about the Cremers Memoirs relates to what the Cremers material does NOT mention and that is,that during the relationship between the three ( Collins,Cremers,and RDS ) does Vittoria ever mention any drug use or even the hint of drugs whatsoever. What is NOT in the Cremers material is more important than what IS in the Cremers material.

[John Savage]

Hi Howard,

For a person to declare themselves bankrupt has always required them to pay up front the initial costs of the case. At present in the UK I believe this amounts to £475, but 20 years ago I think it was nearer £50. In 1874 that figure would probably have been nearer £10, an amount that Richard could perhaps have found somewhere.

What caused this bankruptcy is something that I hope the local newspapers may tell us, but at the moment it does re affirm the notion that far from being a wealthy family, as Harris suggests, they were something less.

I did some weeks ago look through the local direrctories of the time, and I beleive that by the late 1880's or 1890's Richard had become a shopkeeper, something I shall have to re check as soon as I have a moment.

As you say, one of the things we want to know is where did Donston get money to live on, - not from his brother by the looks of things. It all needs further investigation, but thanks to Robert I now have a bone to knaw at, so I expect to return to this subject at a later date.

Rgds
John

[How Brown]

Professor Savvy:

Thanks very much for this information. I kind of thought one would have to have money to go bankrupt back then....otherwise,why would debtors be sent to prison...

Anyway...regarding Mr.Harris's claim about the wealth of that family....

Is it possible that we can find out whether the Father of Donston inherited that house from his father or family member?

Thats what might have occurred here. Old Man Richard might have been handed that hacienda in the first place and the appearance of opulence based on a prior inheritance may have given Melvin the wrong impression...

As always John...great stuff.;)

[John Savage]

Hi All,

Whilst searching for other unrelated information I came across the below entry in the Hull News, 6th. June 1891. This is from an article originally published in the Pall Mall Gazette, and concerns the Royal Baccarat scandal in which the Prince of Wales was called upon to give evidence concerning cheating at a game of cards which occurred at Tranby Croft, on the outskirts of Hull, the home of wealthy ship owner Arthur Wilson.

The article, of which only a portion is reproduced here, clearly shows a local knowledge of Hull, and is written by someone signing himself “by one who knows them”. As we also know that Donston used a similar by-line and had Hull connections I wonder if he could have penned this?

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/HullNewsPMG6June1891.jpg

[Robert Linford]

Very interesting, John. And of course, RDS had not just Hull connections but shipping connections too, so who knows, maybe he formed a grudge against the Wilsons.

Robert

[Tom_Wescott]

Bylines beginning 'By One Who...' appear to have been common among reporters back then, so was not a D'Onston invention or anything like that.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[How Brown]

"so was not a D'Onston invention or anything like that."

For sure its not a "Donston invention"...BUT

There are 4 links to Stephenson within the piece.

1. Shipping Link
2. Pall Mall Gazette
3. "Nom de plume" similar
4. Hull, RDS' hometown.

Good work John..;)

One thing that might work against the idea of Stephenson being the author ( not to be a partypooper ) is that he was busy blackmailing Collins in the early/mid summer of 1891 in London.

Hey who knows? Maybe he cooked up a couple of batwings and then concocted a "black magic ritual" so he could transport himself up to Hull to find out more inside skinny on the subject of the piece and then of course he tapped his ruby slippers together and hauled it back to London.

In any event,a good find Professor:clap:

[Robert Linford]

How, would he have needed his Ruby slippers if the article was originally published in the PMG?

Robert

[How Brown]

Robert:

Well...if he was involved with the intrigue going on with Collins ( the purloined letters....)then he would have to ( and concievably could ) had to known more than a little about this guy in the article. Yes,you're right,maybe he didn't need to leave London for this piece to appear. Stephenson may well have been aware of the subject matter.

[John Savage]

Hi Tom,

You are quite right about by-lines and of course I am by no means certain that this was written by Donston, but old sudden death had to do something for a living and I have often thought that he may have written for the PMG and perhaps other newspapers, as a penny a line self employed journalist.

I made the above post simply as a speculation, because one of the things we don't know about Donston is how he made a living.

Rgds
John

[Tom_Wescott]

Howard and John,

I wasn't attacking John's work in any way, merely pointing out something that I wasn't sure John was aware of.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[How Brown]

Tom:

Hold on homes...I know that !:)

You are correct...that Stephenson did NOT invent the anonymous nom de plume....thats all I wanted to point out. I agree with you for certain. I understood you 100 percent.

John hits on the most crucial and in my mind, most requisite part of the Stephenson saga....How the hell did this guy exist ? Blackmail? From his mother? How?????

The two authors who wrote on Stephenson apparently had and one still has zero interest on how Stephenson made a pound or dollar. This is important on several levels and will take time to figure out.

[John Savage]

Hi All,

Joseph Dawber appears to have been the son of Robert Dawber and therefore would have been a cousin of Donston, he was a well known local solicitor and drew up the last will and testament of Richard Stephenson Snr. Through the years the Dawber family seem to have prospered by carrying on their business of roofers and slate merchants.

By 1890 Joseph had a large house in the best part of Beverley and as well as his solicitors practice at 16 Parliament Street he carried on business at Newland, Hull as Kingston Sanitary Pipe Company an Terra Cotta Works. Alas all was not well, in February 1891 he became bankrupt and at his examination (Hull Daily News 14th. Feb. 1891 page8) it became clear that he had been misappropriating his clients funds and he was duly arrested in April 1891 and committed to the next York Assizes (Hull Daily News 7th. April 1891 page4). The below account from the Hull Daily News of 21st. July 1891 (page 3) shows that he was dealt with severely and given seven years penal servitude.

My thanks to Robert Linford for his help in explaining the Dawber family tree.
http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/JDawberYorkAzzize189120001A.jpg

[Robert Linford]

That's very interesting, John. So his own family lost out too.

I'm not sure if he ever came out of the jug - I can't seem to find him in 1901 at present. I'll have a trawl through the death registers.

Robert

[John Savage]

Hi All,

Donston may not have been the only person shooting seabirds at Flamborough, as it seems to have been quite the fashion at the time, as the following extract from the Yorkshire Post Magazine of Saturday 28th April 2007 points out:-

"The cliffs were not always such a safe haven. In the mid 19th. Centuary, a fashion arose for shooting kittiwakes on the cliffs for millinery"

It appears that the feathers of the kittiwake were much prized for the decoration of ladies hats!

Rgds
John

[Tom_Wescott]

Look at the jolly bonnet I've got! :)

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[SirRobertAnderson]

John hits on the most crucial and in my mind, most requisite part of the Stephenson saga....How the hell did this guy exist ? Blackmail? From his mother? How?????

The two authors who wrote on Stephenson apparently had and one still has zero interest on how Stephenson made a pound or dollar. This is important on several levels and will take time to figure out.

I also fail to understand how he acquired the scholarship necessary to author The Patristic Gospels. Even if entirely self-taught - which I doubt - it took a lot of time, time he couldn't have spent earning a living.

[How Brown]

Bob:

That ( the acumen to produce the Patristic Gospels and how he had the time to acquire it ) has been on the old back burner over here as well....

It took him over a decade (according to RDS) to put it together while in pain ( He may have begun work on this around 1892 or so...because the book came out in 1904 ).

It occurred to me that he may have been living ( by this time...around 1892 or so after his dealings with Cremers and Collins...and prior to the pamphleteering for Woodhull ) off the charity of individuals who were in the religious book publishing milieu...

That it took 11 or 13 years ( off the top of my head,I think thats how many years he mentions...) to produce it is one thing and open to speculation.....but the funds to produce,research,exist and other living expenses have to come from somewhere. In addition, he's 51 years old in 1892 and in 1892, 51 years old WAS 51 years old.

What is a little unusual ( one of the things I used to wonder when I was really into Stephenson....) was why he didn't try his hand at writing a book about the WM....but opted for a book with an extremely esoteric "fan base". I came up with this idea below.... a while back....but didn't mention it at that time:

>With a long and drawn out task ahead of him...such as the manufacturing of the Patristic Gospels....Stephenson may have figured he could drag this project out in order to continue living off the hand that fed him until completion..... Remember,it would require more than 20 minutes ( The elapsed time in copying and pasting the Baphomet Chronicles.....) to put the P.G. together.<

Stephenson was no dunce one way or the other....it takes a certain genius to survive in a virtually existential method...even then..

What better way of living existentially ( This guy made Kierkegaard look like Donald Trump) as he did....just making ends meet with a lifestyle that requires little material in it. He doesn't eat much....lives out of trunks...probably was a good storyteller in a taproom in order to get the locals to buy him a pint or so...who knows? This is why,although I don't consider him even a suspect then...he is one helluva interesting character.

I think Spiro D. or Mark Franzoi mentioned Nietzsche once in an email to me ( Beyond Good and Evil,a great book,for one ) because Freddy had four books published in that same year of 1888. RDS seems to have been familiar with the themes within these tomes in some aspects....he has some Nietzschean-like characteristics....

[How Brown]

To condense the previous post....I think its worth considering that Stephenson may have accepted this task of writing,compiling and organizing the P.G. from,perhaps,some anonymous benefactor. Of course,I can't prove this.

But the duration of the work ( and no known work after 1893 by him is in existence....yet,perhaps ) indicates to me that this was a long term project which kept him in chloral.

[Robert Linford]

Hi How

If anyone has the book (did TW buy a copy?) could they tell us whether there is a dedication? If someone bankrolled this book, you'd expect some sort of acknowledgement.

Robert

[How Brown]

Bob:

We HAVE the P.G. here in the "collected writings of D'onston" in pdf format....its in the D'onston section.

Please check it out and see....when you find it...and remark on whom is acknowledged. I should know this by heart,but for some reason I don't.

By the way....in a previous post I hastily mentioned that we don't have any post 1892/1893 writings from RDS available. That obviously excludes the 1896 offering,the very important article in Borderland..........

[John Savage]

Hi All,


I have spent some time in the past looking for any information on Donston’s education, but have not been able to come up with anything. Many local schools that existed at the time have disappeared, and those that are left have either no record of pupils for this period, or if they have old Sudden Death (or his brother Richard) does not appear. I believe that Melvin Harris also had some research carried out locally but they were unable to throw any light on the matter.

What we do know is that his parents were able to employ a governess until; I think, Donston was 10 or 11 years old. We know he worked in H.M. Customs, and from what I gather this would have involved taking a civil service entry examination. I did find a small advertisement in the Hull newspapers of around 1880, that offered tuition for anyone wishing to take this examination, which I feel would have been a part time or evening course concentrating on the subjects required to pass the examination. So anyone with a reasonable knowledge of the “3R’s” should have been able to pass.

As regards medical knowledge it is possible that Donston attended the Hull Medical School, which offered a course of, I think, 16 lectures, after which a diploma was issued that allowed students to progress to one of the teaching hospitals in London, Edinburgh or elsewhere. This could have formed the basis of his being a medic in Garibaldi’s army. I also seem to recall that Donston at one time later in life became a dispenser at a chemist shop, in which case a diploma from the Hull Medical School would perhaps have been of advantage.

From my researches I have come to the conclusion that the Stephenson family may have been devout Methodists, and it may be this played a part in his education. Robert has a good idea in looking for a dedication of the book Patristic Gospels and I would also suggest that the background of the publishers might be something worth investigating.

Rgds
John

[Robert Linford]

How and John

I can't make out any dedication in the PG. But the publisher was a very distinguished one, having top literary names on his list of clients.

There are archives of letters to and from Grant Richards. I don't know whether anyone's checked these for Stephenson?

Here are some links. Richards knew Stead, and quite a few other people, e.g. James Joyce. He also published a biography.
http://www.attackingthedevil.co.uk/peers/richards.php (http://www.attackingthedevil.co.uk/peers/richards.php)
http://www.proquest.com/products_umi/descriptions/British-and-American-Publishers-106.shtml (http://www.proquest.com/products_umi/descriptions/British-and-American-Publishers-106.shtml)
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=523078 (http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=523078)
http://www.oakknoll.com/detail.php?d_booknr=10127 (http://www.oakknoll.com/detail.php?d_booknr=10127)

Robert

[John Savage]

Hi Robert,

The following snippett from the Oxford Dictionary of National Bography looks interesting.

"Allen recognized [Grant]Richards's interest in publishing and in 1888 arranged a job for him as junior clerk with the wholesale booksellers Hamilton, Adams & Co., and in 1890 obtained him a position with W. T. Stead on the Review of Reviews, where for the next six years he was involved with editorial work and reviewing."

Rgds
John

[Robert Linford]

Yes John, I wonder whether Stead smoothed the way for the publication of Donston's book. I'm not qualified to judge Donston's book from the point of view of Biblical scholarship, but it does seem to me that for a newcomer to the field, or at least someone who didn't belong to academia, to get a scholarly book published by a respectable publisher, was rather exceptional.

Robert

[How Brown]

This is a little puzzling in a way...bear with me.

If Richards was a reputable publisher ( and no doubt he was ) then its strange that a story ( the one in Borderland ) with all its fantasies would impress Richards enough...if he indeed saw it at all....to agree to publish Stephenson. Its one extreme to the other.

Richards comments on Stephenson within the text of the O'Donnell.

What he doesn't mention is whether any of Stephenson's other ( and perhaps unseen so far,if in fact they exist ) writing was seen by him ever.

Stephenson's "forte" was writing the outrageous occult-based stories,not religious rewrites....

Do you gentlemen see what I mean? What is the basis of Richards accepting Stephenson's proposed book....which ostensibly took years to make?

Therefore,to my thinking,if Richards wanted to maintain his reputable status...which he evidently did....then perhaps Stephenson,in addition to his tall tales for Stead and Lucifer Magazine,wrote on other topics....topics similar to the occult in that he had a modicum of knowledge about them as well.

In other words...the occult material was the same as the rewriting of the scriptures...just a job,perhaps,after all.

Any suggestions?

[SirRobertAnderson]

In other words...the occult material was the same as the rewriting of the scriptures...just a job,perhaps,after all.

Any suggestions?

Two quick thoughts:

One, it appears that he learned ancient Greek somewhere along the line.

Two, I bought my copy of the PG from a church. It looks like it was owned by a cleric at some point, and it is HEAVILY annotated with a lot of marginalia regarding Donston's footnotes. So at least one owner had a good look at his scholarship and found noteworthy stuff. (As far as I can see, the notations are all relating to scripture.)

[Robert Linford]

How, there does seem to be a bit of a culture gap between the sensationalist occult stuff and the apparent sober scholarship of the PG. Of course, you can have the two together - MR James was a first rate Biblical scholar and medievalist, yet published some classic ghost stories. But these were mere fiction and James never pretended that any of these ghostly goings-on ever happened.

I'm a bit at a loss, actually.

Robert

[Robert Linford]

Presumably RDS received royalties - probably very meagre ones - up to his death? I wish we had the Grant Richards account book!

[Robert Linford]

Sir Robert, I've just seen your post. Do you mean that the PG found its way to America?

Robert

[How Brown]

Robert:

This is the URL for the Patristic Gospels...

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=1353

Stephenson most likely if not definitely did not learn Greek after liasing with Collins,the Hospital trips,the cosmetic company,etc...he probably learned them far earlier.

Bob...I didn't mean to infer that the two ( invented occult tales and a rewrite of the scriptures ) were in any way equal as to their comparable levels in literature.....but rather that they were "equal" in that he could do both....and rather well in the case of the P.G. if they were referred to as authoritative. The latter is a textbook for all practical purposes and the occult stuff was for entertainment.

Sir Bob:

If possible sometime...look for minister's names or "reverends" or some link to London's clergy in the annotations.

Good stuff guys...

[SirRobertAnderson]

Sir Robert, I've just seen your post. Do you mean that the PG found its way to America?

Robert

That's a darn good question and I have to pull my copy out and check where it came from; also what I can glean from the marginalia. Off hand I don't remember which dealer I bought it from....

Unfortunately the copy is brittle as all heck and I can't scan it without it turning to dust.

[How Brown]

I wonder when Stephenson first entered the Workhouse where he died 12 years after the first ( only ? ) edition of the P.G appeared....we have the date and cause of death,but not the date he entered...

He was 63 when the P.G. came out. He was 75 when he died.

[John Savage]

Hi Howard,

"Do you gentlemen see what I mean? What is the basis of Richards accepting Stephenson's proposed book....which ostensibly took years to make?"

It seems that Richards often took a chance on unkown or new authors, many of whom seem to have gone on to become well known, but who then placed their works with other publishers.

It seems probable that he would have known Donston for a good number of years, and it may be that which made him take the chance to publish the PG.

Robert found a website for a company called Proquest, whom have 11 rolls of microfilm containing correspondence between Richards and his authors It would be fascinating to get hold of this and see if there are any letters to or from Donston, but from what I can make out these are only available to US libraries, so alas I shall be unable to do it. But perhaps a worthwhile project for anyone in the US who wishes to pursue it?

Rgds
John

[How Brown]

Excellent suggestion,John....

Robert....when possible,please let us know if this Proquest is accessible from New York,Philadelphia,or other municipal libraries.

Thanks John.

[Tom_Wescott]

John,

I second that. Good stuff you got there.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[How Brown]

Tommy:

I'm going to see if Proquest is available at the Philly Free....if it is,I will go one weekend in May and check it out.

What do you make of the Richards-RDS connection ? If nothing at this time,don't worry about replying....

[John Savage]

Hi All,
Over on Casebook the poster mcebe mentioned an article on the Flamorough shooting in a newspaper called the Hull Packet.

I looked it out and below is the full text from the Hull Packet and East Riding Times 17th. July 1868 page 6 col B.

Note that this article metions that the yacht was engaged for a week, whilst the Bridlington Free Press mentions that they set out for a days sailing around Flamborough. Other than that not much that we did not know before.

[John Savage]

Hi All,


Some time ago I was able to post on this thread information concerning Richard Stephenson jnr. when he had been involved in a court case after trying to evict the tenants of a house in Church Street. One of the newspaper reports was titled “Ex Councillor Stephenson in Trouble Again”. This of course raised in my mind the questions, why was he now an ex councillor and what trouble had he been in before.

I think I may now have found the answers to these questions. Searches of the Hull Packet and East Riding Times between 1871 and 1874 have turned up some interesting information, Richard jnr. turns out to be anti drink and also very critical of the local constabulary. These views led him into conflict with the Watch Committee (of which he was a member, who had overall control of the local police force and he ended up calling for the resignation of the committee! They didn’t but he did.

Newspaper reports do not make clear the exact nature of this conflict, but it may well have started with something referred to by the newspapers as the “Raywell Street Affair”, (Raywell Street incidentally runs off Charles Street close to number 35 where he was born). As far as I can tell, this appears to have been a drunken brawl in which the conduct of some police officers became a matter of contention, and public meetings were held to debate matters. Richard was to the fore in these meetings and appears to have had some support from members of the public, but attacking the other members of the watch committee, seems to have lead to his downfall.

Perhaps the most important information thrown up by these newspaper reports is that they state that Richard jnr. had been a member of the Wesleyan Methodist Church, but had either left or been expelled and become a member of the Church of England were he became a Churchwarden of St. Silas Church, Barmston Street, Hull. I believe this may be the first reference we have uncovered that states definitely that a member of the Stephenson family was a Wesleyan Methodist.

Richard jnr. certainly seems to have been a controversial man at this time, and whilst the newspaper reports concerning these matters are too long and disjointed to quote in full, I would like to end by quoting the below item from the Hull Packet of 7th. November 1873, which in it’s tongue in cheek satirical manner gives us a brief insight into the esteem (or lack of it) in which he was held at the time. With thanks to Robert Linford.

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/Stephenson20jnr20H20Packet207Nov201.jpg

[Mike Covell]

Thanks for posting these John.

I have been working my way through Hull Packet from 1870 but have not really found much regarding the family.

Did you get the message regarding Richard Snr and the fike held at Hull City Archives regarding a crime committed against him at the Union Mill?

All the best

Mike

[Mike Covell]

Today i discovered a new attempt by Richard Stephenson Jnr to cause anarchy at a church in Hull!!

It seems that in St Silas church he had a little to do with the locals.

The report comes in two parts.

The first part involves an incident at a church where he entered and caused a fuss which is featured in the Hull times 15/02/73.

The second report involves the follow up and comments from church wardens and clergy featured in the same newspaper on te 20/09/73.

I also found a report in a Hull newspaper regarding a fishing smack in 1881, the vessels name......."Saucy Jack":humble:

[John Savage]

Hi All

Baron Justus Von Liebig
Born in Darmstadt 12th May 1803 – died 18th. April 1873
Appointed to University of Munich, 1852-1873.

In his book “The True Face of JTR” Melvyn Harris tells us that Donston, “In his teens took rooms in Munich and studied chemistry under the renowned Dr. James Allen, a Scotsman who had been the former right hand assistant to Baron Liebig”. In order to test this idea I have been trying to find out more about Dr. Allen and his mentor, and whilst I have had no success with Dr. Allen I have come up with something which might bring a bight to the jaded appetites of the committed Donstonite.
Baron von Liebig was a chemist and made several important discoveries, but here we are concerned with just one – yeast extract, a foodstuff still in use today and the basis for such famous products as Marmite and Oxo. Liebig founded his own company to manufacture and Market this product in 1865 and production commenced at the works of Societe Fray Bentos Giebert & Cie, Uruguay in 1866. The yeast extract was sold in small pots as “Liebig’s Extract of Meat” and each pot bore his own signature. By 1875 500 tons of yeast extract were being produced every year.

It is therefore quite possible that Donston’s knowledge of Baron Liebig came from nothing more sinister than a Victorian version of a jar of Marmite.

Rgds
John

[Mike Covell]

Hi All

Baron Justus Von Liebig
Born in Darmstadt 12th May 1803 – died 18th. April 1873
Appointed to University of Munich, 1852-1873.

In his book “The True Face of JTR” Melvyn Harris tells us that Donston, “In his teens took rooms in Munich and studied chemistry under the renowned Dr. James Allen, a Scotsman who had been the former right hand assistant to Baron Liebig”. In order to test this idea I have been trying to find out more about Dr. Allen and his mentor, and whilst I have had no success with Dr. Allen I have come up with something which might bring a bight to the jaded appetites of the committed Donstonite.
Baron von Liebig was a chemist and made several important discoveries, but here we are concerned with just one – yeast extract, a foodstuff still in use today and the basis for such famous products as Marmite and Oxo. Liebig founded his own company to manufacture and Market this product in 1865 and production commenced at the works of Societe Fray Bentos Giebert & Cie, Uruguay in 1866. The yeast extract was sold in small pots as “Liebig’s Extract of Meat” and each pot bore his own signature. By 1875 500 tons of yeast extract were being produced every year.

It is therefore quite possible that Donston’s knowledge of Baron Liebig came from nothing more sinister than a Victorian version of a jar of Marmite.

Rgds
John

Worth remembering that Richard Junior was Vice-consul to Uruguay too!

Mmmm, Fray Bentos!! I love their pies, is it the same company?

[How Brown]

Dear Professor Savage,sor...

Not to be a wise guy, but the gentleman in question's last name was "Allan"...with an "a". I spent waaaay too much time trying to find him as well. He's mentioned on page 93 of The True Face.

Whats significant is that neither Harris or Edwards found him and yet maintained he 'existed' without evidence. A typical example of the unsourceable and untraceable people and elements in the whole of the RDS story.



I had contacted Heidelberg.....for information on whether Numbnuts went to Heidelberg,since Dr. Fido mentioned that mistakingly and innocently on Casebook around 4 years or so ago. He didn't.

However, its quite possible that RDS did acquire knowledge on how to make facial creams,since it sure wasn't his money that got him in like Flynn with the two ladies in the Pompadour venture.

[How Brown]

By the way, I need to correct something from a post made in 2006.

Earlier, I mentioned that Stephenson was busy in London blackmailing Collins. This is unproven. In fact, Stephenson...if he ever intended to blackmail Collins...didn't get the chance as Cremers nicked the letters and thats what the alleged Marylebone court appearance was all about...Stephenson's attempt to recoup letters given to him by Collins.

Just to keep the facts straight.

[John Savage]

Hi Howard,

Thanks for pointing out my spelling mistake, and as a result I rechecked my work. Because of your correction we now have a thread on Dr. James Allan.

On a more general note:
In 1915 the Liebig Extract of Meat Company decided, just like Kinge George V, that a change of name was called for and so changed their trading name to Oxo, although the Liebig name carried on until the company was taken over by Brooke Bond Ltd. in the 1960's. The company also provided the British army with Fray Bentos corned beef, which they used to bombard the enemy through two world wars! So yes Mike, it is realted to your tinned meat pie, but for heaven's sake, if you really enjoy a good pie get yourself down to the bakers in King Street Cottingham, their shin and potato pies are to die for!

Rgds
John

[Mike Covell]

I often pass through Cott' on the way to Castle Hill so I will seek out a pie next time I am in the area.

[How Brown]

Whoa,whoa,whoa !!!!!

Dear Professor:

Not to divert the thread here...but what the hell are "shin" pies?

First...it was eels. Then it was blood pudding. Then it was meat faggots. THEN...it was spotted dick.

On the level, what won't you fellers eat?

[John Savage]

Hi Howard,

You mean to say you have never had a shin and potato pie?

Shin of beef and potato encased in a shortcrust pastry, baked fresh every day. Mike is off to try one so let's await his verdict.

Rgds
John

[How Brown]

Ah...beef. Beef's my favorite fruit...and I'll bet shin pies are great.

They've gotta be better than eatin' eels and faggots.:becky:

[John Savage]

Hi All,

The Custom House building were Donston once worked [when he could be bothered to turn up] still stands, and is a branch of Boots the Chemist.

It featured in an article in yesterday's Yorkshire post, and if you would like to read more please go to:


http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/video/History-uncovered-Hull39s-grandest-hotel.5607202.jp (http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/video/History-uncovered-Hull39s-grandest-hotel.5607202.jp)

Rgds
John

[Mike Covell]

I missed this yesterday, thanks for posting John. I tried gaining access some years ago, and contacted Boots who were really nice and said that although it's their's it is rented off Trinity House, so I was unable to get in. I waited until the Heritage Days and visited twice. I love the place, especially that high ceiling!

[How Brown]

Thanks a lot Professor Savage....that was pretty neat seeing the old workplace of Jack The...er, D'Onston.

[Nemo]

Very nice...

[Mike Covell]

The Customs House will be open later this month over two days, I plan on returning and taking more pictures. It's a lovely building, and would love to get to the upper floors.

[John Savage]

Hi All,

Atempts have been made in the past to discover details of the vessel used by old Sudden Death in his voyage around Flamborough Head. These have usually been searches of the Lloyd's Register of Shipping which only holds records of vessels over 100 tons gross weight, which I beleive would have been to big to enable beaching at Flamborough.

Whilst doing some other research I have become aware of the Mercantile Navy List, first published by the Board of Trade in 1857 which records British vessels over one quarter ton gross weight. This seems to be a more likely source of information for the Flying Scud.

Unfortunately for me these records are not available in Hull, but are said to be available at the National Archives and Guildhall Library London. If anyone has time to check it out, please do so, and good luck.

Rgds
John

[John Savage]

Hi All,
On his trip around Flamborough Head old sudden death claimed to have sailed on a vessel named “Flying Scud”. Attempts have been made in the past to track her down using Lloyds Register of Ships, however this usually only lists larger vessels of 100 gross tons and above. As Donston’s boat had to be beached at Flamborough it would have had to have been much smaller, and whilst researching another matter I have found the existence of the “Mercantile Navy List” first published 1857. This lists ships from a quarter of a ton upwards and may therefore be more likely to contain details of the Flying Scud.
However it is not available in Hull but can be viewed at the National Archies and the Guildhall Library London. I am unable at present to spare the time to travel to London and inspect these files but if anyone else feels able to spare the time I feel it might be worthwhile.
Rgds
John

[SirRobertAnderson]

[]However it is not available in Hull but can be viewed at the National Archies and the Guildhall Library London. I am unable at present to spare the time to travel to London and inspect these files but if anyone else feels able to spare the time I feel it might be worthwhile.[/COLOR]

Hey John - I will be arriving in London a day or two early for the Conference and might very well be able to go. I will need idiot proof instructions and guidance, but will give it a shot.

[How Brown]

Dear John ,sor...

Please forgive me for not responding to your email asking me whether your last post was visible on this thread. It is and I should have gotten back to you last night.

How

[John Savage]

Howard, All clear now, thank you.

Sir Robert,

If you are attending the conference then the nearest place to search would be the Guildhall Library, Aldermanbury, London EC2 2EJ. This will be about 10 minutes walk from Whitechapel, and they are open 09.30 - 16.45 daily.

The Guildhall Library will be closed however between 24th. October until 4th. November leaving altrnatives of the National Archive at Kew or the National Maritime Museum at Greenwhich, neither of which are in central London.

If you want any more idiot proof instructions please ask, I am after all a qualified idiot!

Rgds
John

[SirRobertAnderson]

If you are attending the conference then the nearest place to search would be the Guildhall Library, Aldermanbury, London EC2 2EJ. This will be about 10 minutes walk from Whitechapel, and they are open 09.30 - 16.45 daily.



Would there be a specific year I would be looking for ?

[John Savage]

Hi Sir Robert,

The Flamborough shooting happened in 1868 so that would be the year to go for, and I would suggest a search of plus or minus two years.

From the information I have Guildhall Library hold copies of the Mercatile Navy List from 1857 - 1976, but if you are definitely going I will be glad to check with them first that the years in question are available.

Rgds
John

[John Savage]

Hi All,

It seems that Charles Street, were old Sudden Death was born, has another small claim to fame!

In 1985 it was used as a location for scenes in an episode of the BBC television comedy "Only Fools and Horses". An episode entitled "To Hull and Back".

Not many people know that.

Rgds
John

[Mike Covell]

Great episode! I recall Del Boy and Rodney stood on Charles-street at the junction of John-street, where Richard Stephenson lived in later years!

[John Savage]

Hi All

Today I was out at Brough Haven, a dismal muddy creek on the River Humber. Whilst Iwas there I came across an information board giving details of vessels sunk in the river, and amongst them was a tug which sank in the Middle Humber [off Hull] in 1895. Her Name - Flying Scud.
A date is given which I recorded on my mobile phone but cannot at the moment access but if memory serves me was 7th November, however it certainly sank in 1895.

The date is over 30 years after Donston's shooting incident at Flamborough, and in my opinion a tug would probably have too deep a draft to go into the small landing bay at Flamorough. However it might possibly have something to do with Thomas Piles.

As the vessel sank there will almost certainly be a record of it somewhere, but at the moment I have too much to do at work to follow this up, so if Mike or anyone else wishes to look ionto this further - be my guest.

Rgds
John

[How Brown]

Thanks for the update, John.
Hope all is going good for you, old man.

[John Savage]

Hi Howard,

Things are good for me at the moment, very good in fact!

Trouble is I have so much work on at the moment it is making me feel like an old man!!

Rgds
John

[Mike Covell]

Hi John, I believe Alec Gill published a book on the ships lost in the Humber. I consulted it whilst writing my chapter on RDS and the Flamborough Shooting. I consulted several books on Hull Shipping, Lloyds Shipping Registers, The Hull Trawler website, Hull City Archives and Hull Museums and found out quiet a bit about the Flying Scud, but sadly Thomas Piles was never a registered owner or captain. I did find Piles in several records on both the Advance and the Achillies in the 1860's. The Advance was the ship on which Piles was aboard during the Census, and was a fishing smack.

Lloyds shipping registers show a Flying Scud built by JP Rennoldson of South Shields in 1866. It weighed in at 100 tons and measured 98 ft by 18ft. It had a single mast but was more commonly used as a steam paddler. It had 1 engine, 1deck, 1mast and was constructed entirely of wood. Its registered ship number was 53404. The vessel’s registered owner was Thomas Gray.

You will of course remember that it was Edwin Gray who supervised the landing at Bridlington Quay.

[John Savage]

Hi Mike,

Of course I know of the Flying Scud found in LLoyds register, I remember when I first found her, I dismissed her as being to big to enter the North Landing at Flamborough

Also we never found much on Thomas Piles but Robert Linford did manage to locate the census details a long time ago. I also found a family of fishermen in Bridlington named Piles but never managed to link Thomas too them.

Ship owners have a habit of re using the same names for their ships, so the one mentioned as sinking in 1895 may be a newer ship than the vessel refered to in the LLoyds Register of 1866. It may also have been the same ship converted to a tug, and if this were the case the Lloyds Register number would remain the same.

I shall try to keep this matter in mind for further research when I have time, as I believe that old Sudden Death may have had a habit of mixing a few grains of truth into some of his wild tales, and there may possibly be more to be found if details of this "Sunken Scud" can be found.

Rgds
John

[Mike Covell]

14. The Flying Scud, a steam paddled tug sank in Hull Roads off Alexander dock on October 8th 1895 and became a total loss.


P. 115 Hull Docklands, An Illustrated History of the Port of Hull, Michael Thompson, Hutton Press, 1999.

Pages 124/125 show a map with the number and location of the disaster.



Hull History Centre has the following, item ref, DPC/1/22/70 1878
Roll 150


Flying scud, Shipping Registry
Year Number 1878
Port: Hull
Number of Year Previous: 1873
Port of Previous: Liverpool
Under tonnage: 100.31
Type: Steam Paddles
Where Built: North Shields
When: 1866
Names, Residence, owner, Thomas Gray of the town and borough of Kingston upon Hull, Steam Tug Owner
Dated 6th September 1878
Transaction Name Date of Registry Date of Transaction Address
1 Thomas Gray 20 Sept 1879 17 Sept 1879 William Tulley of Hull
2 Thomas Gray 22 Feb 1882 17 Sept 1879 John Gray of Hull
3 Thomas Gray 9 Oct 1882 6 July 1882 Catherine Precious
4 Thomas Gray 23 April 1884 16 April 1883 William Tulley #
Sank 7/10/1895 Humber

#Thomas Gray died April 16th 1884

The Hull Daily Mail, October 8th 1895, notes,
Collision in the Humber. The Flying Scud sunk in three minutes. Statement by her skipper. At 9.20 on the 7th the Flying Scud was hit by the steam trawler Sledmere and everything on board was lost, with the Scud being cut in two. The Scud was listed as 15 tons, the Sledmere 100 tons. James Naylor was the captain of the vessel.


Having traced this vessel in the Lloyds Shipping Registers, both Sail and Steam, from 1866 until 1895, I have no found no trace of Thomas Pile/s as the skipper.