F R O M_ _ H U L L

[How Brown]

This thread is devoted to research,photos,and discussion on Robert Stephenson and his family.
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All photos posted on this thread are the sole possession of the posting party. The Forums does not "own" the photos...

[How Brown]

Folks:

Stephen Ryder has graciously permitted The Forums to use the archived section on Stephenson....FROM HULL...from Casebook.

A lot of the archived posts contained information necessary to see and add on to because in an archived state,we could not do so....

Be sure to consider supporting the seminal work done at the Casebook by purchasing their latest CD/DVD of archived material AND consider a monetary donation to keep the Casebook going. Anything helps....so please consider it.

Thank you.....

[How Brown]

POST ONE in the series....

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If any of you live in the Hull area,and for whatever reason are near the "city hall"....Please let me know as I have three records we need to locate...... First: In the category of wills, we would like to know if there are any wills accessible to public view. ANY will that has the name "Stephenson" after it, would be what to look for. Second: In the category of births, what we are looking for is whether,as was the practice of the time in most cases, or not the birth of any Stephenson was handled at home by a physician. The Stephenson's may not have been wealthy at the time of D'onston's birth but afterwards. Maybe....just maybe...the doctor who delivered RDS noted the birth and was his doctor afterwards up until 1868. Its worth a shot... Thirdly...police records or arrest records of any Stephenson if available. Maybe RDS has a record from his hometown. It would interesting to see what, if it existed ,it was for.... Anyway...I have sent out feelers to the City of Hull on these and other matters. We all know that many times the requests we make are never followed through with on the other end. Thats why I was asking if anyone lived near that area of England. Thanks for your time. How



After 1858 there is a national series of probate calendars covering wills and administrations. These are printed indexes, one per year, and are fairly widely held in record offices within England (and have been microfilmed). So for wills after that date a search could be done elsewhere (in London, for example). Before 1858 things were a lot more complicated, but any wills before that date are likely to be at the Borthwick Institute in York. Chris Phillips


Thanks my friend...I appreciate this information. I'll check into it. His Mom died in 1891 [found by Nina Thomas ] and the old man died in 1889. The reason I, along with Nina perhaps, am looking for the wills in particular,is that I can't "figure out" how Stephenson survived on the basis of his articles to sustain him, his habits,and travels and am starting to lean toward the idea that he recieved monies from his mother "on the side". A guy who is alleged to have bathed every day and yet is "known" as someone who wore worn clothing....a man who could put together something such as "The Patristic Gospels" and winds up in a workhouse and buried in Islington,evidently so poor he could not afford his own burial place. There is just something wrong that I can't put my finger on about all of this....but being a hardheaded part Hungarian, I have to try to.

[How Brown]

Hi Howard, It just so happens that I live in Hull, about a quarter of a mile from Charles Street, the birth place of Donston. I will be glad to offer what assistance I can, but details of wills and birth certificates are most likeley to be found in the general registers, copies of which are kept at Hull Central Library. I beleive that Melvin Harris carried out some research at Hull, although I do not have a copy of his book "The Bloody Truth", which I think is the one that detailed his research there. Somewhere in my files I have details of a will taken from the National Probate Calendars which gives details of a Stephenson, engaged in the seed crushing business, I will try to look it out and post it here. As time permits I will make what enquiries I can, but it would help if I knew to whom you had sent "feelers". Rgds John Donston's birth certificate may not give details of the address were he was born, at home or elsewhere, but with a few details you can obtain one.

[How Brown]

I looked up the original index entry for Donston's birth, in case anyone wanted to order a copy of the certificate. The full details are: 1841 Quarter 2 - April to June Name: Stephenson, Robert Donston District: Sculcoates Volume 22 Page 504 However, when I looked at the original index (they were still handwritten then!) the entry above caught my eye. This reads as follows: Name: Stephenson, Richard Rodford District Sculcoates Volume 22

Page 505 If the Stephensons had a penchant for unusual middle names, I presume this is Donston's brother Richard. I knew of Richard Stephenson and had seen him mentioned in various censuses as born circa 1840 but did not realise til this index listing (see below) that he and Donston must have been twins.

[How Brown]

How, This info about William High Stephenson may be of use. He was born in the 1st Quarter of 1872 in Beverley, Yorkshire. He was the son of William and Harriet Stephenson, his father being a doctor. The family is listed in 1881 as follows: 1 Railway Street, Beverley, Yorkshire Head: William Stephenson aged 40 born Hull Bridge, Yorkshire - M.R.C.S. Lond., General Practitioner Wife: Harriet Emma Stephenson aged 38 born St Neot's Children: William Hugh aged 9 Ethel aged 7 Olive aged 6 Dorothy aged 4 Maurice Jewel aged 2 All children born in Beverley


By 1901 we learn of William Hugh's occupation: He is listed as follows: Waterside Cottage, Ferriby, Yorkshire Head: William Bell aged 68 born Seaton, Yorks - Cow keeper Son: James Bell aged 35 born Ferriby - Cow keeper Daughter: Mary Bell aged 29 born Ferriby Boarder: William H Stephenson aged 29 born Beverley - Manager of oil mills He married in 1902 in Sculcoates, his wife's name being Ethel. William Hugh is listed in 1891 still living with his widowed father and is decribed as a merchant's clerk (Message edited by Chris on May 23, 2005)

[How Brown]

Maurice Jewel Stephenson: Apart from the mention above in 1881, he is listed in 1891 as a 12 year old pupil at Giggleswick Grammar School. I have been unable to find him in the 1901 census but he must still have been around as he married in Sculcoates in 1909.

Hi Chris, Some great information there, you had it posted before my local library even opened this morning. William High Stevenson, thats not a typo is it? Or just another unusual middle name to add to the list. Just to help people understand, the different places you have named, Sculcoates is a parish of Hull, Ferriby is 5 miles distant, Beverley and Hull Bridge about 8 and Seaton about 15miles from Hull. Gigleswick is further away in the West Riding, about 70-80 miles. Interesting also to know that Donstan was a twin. Rgds John

[How Brown]

I was hoping to find a Harriet Jewel marrying a William Stephenson. However, in this case the son (Maurice Jewel Stephenson) seems to have been given, not his mother's maiden surname, but his grandad's middle name! His grandad was a surgeon. 1871 St Neots
The surname was transcribed by Ancestry as "Evens." The fourth name down, Sarah Catherine Moor(?), was a lunatic.


Chris...These christening dates show that Richard was born before Robert Donston. Nina found them. Could this be in error ? IGI Christening Dates for children of Richard & Isabella Stephenson: Elizabeth Ann Stephenson Dec.10,1832 William Henry Stephenson Jan.15,1834 William Dawber Stephenson Feb.13,1836 Isabella Dawber Stephenson Aug.16,1837 Richard Stephenson July 31,1839 Robert Douston Stephenson May16,1841

[How Brown]

How Hmmm - that is a mystery. Who is is this Richard Rodford Stephenson? The facts that strike me are: 1) His birth was registered in the same district in the same quarter as Donston. 2) The two entries have consecutive numbers - Vol 22 pages 504 and 505, suggesting they may have been made at the same time. 3) We know that Donstons's family had a penchant for unusual middle names and Rodford certianly fits that 4) Having two sons called Richard would make more sense if the elder one had died, but we know this was not the case. I cannot explain who this second Richard Stephenson born in 1841 is, but there seem a number of coincidental links to Donston.

I must stress that my statements that this Richard may have been a twin was an assumption based on the above links. The only way to solve this would be to order the birth certificate for Richard R Stephenson and see who his parents are. Chris

[How Brown]

Free BMD has this : Deaths Dec 1840 STEPHENSON Richard Sculcoates 22 337 Deaths Mar 1841 STEPHENSON Richard Sculcoates 22 380

[How Brown]

If it's a twin, it's very odd that one twin's baptism should be in the IGI and the other's not. I believe registration rates were relatively low during the early days. Is it possible that this is a late registration of the Richard baptised in 1839? Chris Phillips

[How Brown]

The twin (if that's what he was may have been)may have died virtually at birth before being baptised. I think it unlikely that this was registering the birth of the known brother Richard who was born nearly two years earlier. Births had to be registered within a fairly small time period (as they still do) and if for some reason they failed to register Richard in 1839 I find it hard to think why they would bother to do so nearly two years later. I don't currently have access to 1839 registers but will look as soon as I have Chris

[How Brown]

I think you are probably right. The most likely and logical explanation is that the registration is a late one for Donston's brother Richard. Chris

[How Brown]

I found the listings in the 1881 census for the names that John Savage gave for the will of Robert Ranby Stephenson. It doesn’’’’t seem that any of these are close relatives. 1881 census Railways, Beverly St Martin, Yorkshire Head: William Stephenson - 40 - b. Hull bridge - occupation: general Practitioner MRC, Wife: Harriet, Daughters: Dorothy, Ethel, Olive, Sons: William Hugh age 9, Maurice Jewel age 2 , Servants: 3 1881 census nth bar St. without, Beverly St. Mary, Yorkshire Robert R. Stephenson - 42 - b. Hull Bridge - Occupation: Brewer Malster (employing 8 men), Sister: Susan Stephenson - 36 - b. Hull Bridge, Servants: 3

[How Brown]

Howard, I managed to pop in to the library this morning to do a very quick and brief check on what they had on seedd crushing in Hull, so I hope the following will help. I have been looking at some material about the history of seed crushing in Hull, in the local studies library and the following information may give a little information on the seed crushing Stephenson’’s, who, if my guess is correct were all probably related. (a) A Richard Stephenson, Church Street, Sculcoates appears in directories from 1848-61. A company named only as Stephenson, Spring Street appears in the 1874 directory only. (b) John and James Stephenson, Glasshouse Row, Wilmington had the Anlaby Road Mill in 1877, but built a new mill on part of the site of the old glassworks in 1879-80. They were absorbed by BOCM in 1920-21. The mill was closed in 1926 and sold in 1938 to Alliance Feeds. (c) Adjacent to Union Mill, was a box-press mill, the property of Mr. Richard Stephenson, who had a crows nest built in the top of the mill, upholstered in red plush, where he sat with his telescope searching the mouth of the River Humber for the arrival of his seed ships. Mr. Stephenson transferred the property to Messrs. Pearson & Bailey about 1888-90, and the mill was let on hire. In 1899 it became the property of BOCM (d) On the River Hull Bank some eight miles from the City of Hull [and about 1-2 miles from Railway Street, Beverley] at Hull Bridge. Mesrs. Robert Stephenson & Son in 1826 established a cake and bone mill. The present occupant. MR. Maurice Stephenson, is of the fourth generation of the founders of the business and it is interesting to note that box presses are still operated in this mill. Crushing was discontinued under war time conditions in 1940. Closed as an Oilmill an 1952 after 126 years and is now a Fertiliser Works under the same name. W.H.
Stephenson is the owner of the property in trust. (a) History of Seed Crushing in Great Britain, Harold W. Brace, Land Books Ltd, London 1960 (b) (c) Seed Crushing (Hull) David F. Dean, May 1945. (c) Seed Cushing (Hull) David F. Dean 1957. The notes for b, c, d, are from a typewritten manuscript ""History of Seed Crushing"", library ref L. 665.3 (Safe) Local Studies, Hull Central Library. BOCM is a large company involved in seed crushing, and still exists to this day [I believe] the initials stand for, British Oil and Cake Mills. Cake being what is left of the seed after the oils have been extracted. If you wish I can send you scans of the photocopies I made today.



Howard, Thanks for letting me know the places you have contacted, and please keep me informed of any reply from the City Archives and Gareth Watkins of the Central Library. The link to Borthwick Insitute was most interesting, as I have not come acorss that one before. However they may not be able to help much for Hull, due to the way local government was organised; let me try to explain, the county of Yorkshire was split into three seperate parts, the east, west and north Ridings. Whilst Hull is technically in the east riding, it has for about the last 700 years been known as the "City and County of Kingston upon Hull", and for a lot of older records was treated in effect as a seperate county. Having quickly looked at the Borthwick Institute web site, it appears that Hull may not be included in their records, although out lying villages are. Confusing is it not? Regarding Nina Thomas information, she notes a Robert R Stephenson as being at North Bar Without St. Now from memory I recall that Oak House was in North Bar Without [it is actually a street but that is not normally used]. So I think this may be one and the same. I shall try to check on Oak House just to make sure. Rgds John

[How Brown]

How, Chris et el, In the 1881 British Census Roslyn D. Stephenson is listed as being aged 39 and born in 1842. Yet his birth and other records state 1841 as the birthdate. Although I'm not sure if this has been covered or firmly established, could this explain the situation with Richards birth? Or is this simply an error in the recording of the 1881 census? Thanks Spiro

Hi Spiro Two things with regard to your post: 1) the age as reported in the census reflects the age on the day the census took place, usually in the first week of April. Donston's birth was registered in the 2nd quarter of 1841, so if his birthday fell after the census date he would have been 39 at the time of the census, his 40th birthday falling later that same year. 2) Age field in the census is notoriouly unreliable and must always be trated with some caution



.......and this just in from Hull City Councilperson, Dorothy Parker... [ a letter I sent ]: Dear Friends....I am interested in whether someone could help me locate some records of a family that emanated from Hull. The family's name is Stephenson. The father, Richard,died in 1889 and the mother,Isabella,died in 1891...The father owned a seed-crushing mill in Hull. They lived [ back in the 1840's ] on Willow House, 60, Church Street...The mother's maiden name was Dawber. Its said that Robert Stephenson was born on April 20th,1841. Your help is appreciated. ....and the reply.... Dear Mr. Brown: Your e mail has been forwarded to me by Hull City Council. We are able to search for the births and deaths mentioned in your e mail. So far, we have searched 1841 for the birth of Robert Stephenson but have not located one whose father and mother are Richard and Isabella. We will do a further search for their deaths and let you know if we are able to find them. Yours sincerely Dorothy Parker Superintendent Registrar Hmmm...... John: Thanks for the file on the seed crushing...much appreciated,sir. Spiro...thanks for pitching in...good question,because it puzzles me too as to the correct year.


Howard

[How Brown]

I think that would explain why the Superintendent Registrar for Hull isn't finding the birth registration. (By the way, I think they are going beyond the legal requirements by checking against parents names - normally I think a fee is charged for checking.) Chris Phillips
By the way, this may be a red herring (Sculcoates seems to have been quite populous by this date, and as people have pointed out, Stephenson is unfortunately quite a common name), but the 1834 electoral roll for Sculcoates lists a Stephenson - apparently an absentee landlord: [Number] 4379 [Name] Stephenson, Robert [Abode] Beverley Parks [Qualification] Freehold houses [Description of property] Grotto Square
Hi Chris Phillips, Sculcoates is actually part of Hull, and this gives rise to the registration district being called Sculcoates, also same would apply for any similar references to Drypool, another registration district. I expect the Superintendant Registrar will have taken this into consideration. Also Beverley Parks is actually in Beverley, about half a mile from Railway Street. [I never heard of Grotto Square] Rgds John

[How Brown]

John According to the GENUKI web page, the registers of the defunct Sculcoates registration district are now partly at the Hull register office and partly at the East Riding register office. It seems the ones covering Sculcoates itself are indeed at Hull, so the registrar could check these, provided she realises that Howard meant Church Street in Sculcoates (unfortunately there's a Church Street in the centre of Hull too - I presume this is not the one where the Stephensons lived?). Chris Phillips

Hi Chris, I am afraid you have me a little confused about their being two Church Streets in Hull, I know of only one, which would have been in the parish of Drypool. it is very close to the River Hull and the area of the seed crushing mills, so I expect that it will be the one in question. It may be that Richard Stephenson had a mill, a house or both in Church Street.Unfortunately the street is now totally altered since Victorian times, and it would need further research to check. Rgds John

[How Brown]

John I think I'm the one who was confused (though I remain a bit confused). Apparently the Stephensons lived in "Church Street, Sculcoates" in 1861 (per Chris Scott's information). The Church Street I could see on the map is the one in the parish of Drypool, and therefore not in the parish of Sculcoates - so I assumed it wasn't the one in the census. But I hadn't realised that Drypool was included in Sculcoates registration district, so in any case given the address "Church Street", the registrar would presumably have checked the Sculcoates register. Maybe "Sculcoates" in 1861 was just the name of the registration district, not the name of the parish. And I see that in one of your earlier messages you refer to Stephenson having been born in Charles Street (in Sculcoates parish!). We still seem to be left with a puzzle over why the registrar can't find the birth entry. (I still have a suspicion in the back of my mind that it may be Hull has been checked, but not Sculcoates.) Chris Phillips

It lists these Stephenson births in the West Sculcoates subdistrict in 1841: STEPHENSON, Mary E, West Sculcoates, Hull, WES/2/126 STEPHENSON, Richard R, West Sculcoates, Hull, WES/2/143 STEPHENSON, Robert D, West Sculcoates, Hull, WES/2/130 I don't know how the process of copying into the national registers worked, but the fact that the reference numbers of Richard and Robert aren't close to each other in the local register may suggest they weren't related after all.

Howard - presumably these are the reference numbers the superintendent registrar in Hull would need - she may be willing to check whether Richard is a brother of Robert? Chris Phillips

Hi Chris, Perhaps we are both a little confused over this Sculcoates business, so I will try to get a clear definition from the local studies library. I have it in my head that Donston was born in Charles Street, and I presume this comes from one of the books I have read. Rgds John

[How Brown]

With the help of Google, it seems there were two Church Streets, one on the west bank of the river in Sculcoates parish, and one on the east in Drypool. The following is extracted from one of a series of posts on the YORKSGEN-L Rootsweb mailing list, by Margaret Taylor in Toronto, who was indexing the Catalogue of "Photographs of Old Hull", taken by the Hull Corporation Health Dept.1890-1930s. The information below might be of interest to Linda who was interested in Church St. Today I told her it was east of the River Hull, but it looks as though there could have been a different one as well!-- Photo Ref No 1185 A view looking north at No.2 Leo Place,Church Street Sculcoates.Church Street became Wincolmlee sometime between 1885 and 1895.Leo Place was divided into 2 by a party wall, half of the houses were in Leo Place,Church St. and the other half in Leo Place,Cumberland St (1889 O/S map) The picture also shows the rear of property in Church Street.

Funnily enough, a neighbouring post describes the location of Grotto Square, where a Robert Stephenson owned houses in 1834: Photo Ref No 408

A view looking north and showing the property numbered 11 to 13 Mason St.The picture also shows the large tunnel entrance of Grotto Sq. which contained 23 houses.Grotto Sq. ran all the way through from Mason St. to Sykes St. where it emerged with a less grand opening. Notice the cellar dwellings which were common in this area. The house to the left of the picture although appearing to be smaller in size to its neighbours, has a much grander Georgian door casing.The entrances to 2 more squares can be seen in the picture and they are Marvel Place to the right and William's Sq. to the left.

In another post she says that copies of the photos are available from the Local Studies Department of Hull Central Library for ££3.50 each (that was in 2000). Chris Phillips

Hi Chris Phillips, I am sorry for a delay in replying to your earlier posts regarding the two Church Streets. Having had the chance to do a little research, I can state that the registration district of Sculcoates was much larger than the parish of Sculcoates, it covered an area to the west, north and east of the Hull registration district, which was based roughly on the lines of the medieval town. Church Street Drypool would have been in the Sculcoates registration district. The second Church Street seems to be right on the border of the two registration districts, and I shall try to research further on this as soon as time permits. However this second Church Street, which later became part of Wincolmlee, sounds as though it would have been on the banks of the River Hull (as is the present day Wincolmlee), an ideal place for a mill, and many of these old mills were situated along the banks of the river. From the documents that I obtained from the library earlier this week [see my post 384 (c)]I can say that Union Mill would have been situated in what is today Wincolmlee. I hope to be able to clarify this when I have looked into it further. Rgds John

[How Brown]

Hi Howard, I found the following entry in the National Probate Calendars 1889, page 360. Richard Stephenson Personal Estate ££178. 14s 6d. 6, July The will of Richard Stephenson late of the Borough of Kingston Upon Hull Gentleman who died 5 January 1889 at Kinston Upon Hull was proved at York by the Reverand Samuel Lord of Douglas in the Isle of Man Wesleyan Methodist Minister one of the executors. I cannot be sure that it is our man, but the date seems to fit. Rgds John

Terrific work, Mr. Savage !!! In 1889, what was 178 British pounds ? Is it possible,from your work,that you have discovered Stephensons' family suffering some sort of economic collapse? From a profitable and wealthy seed-crusher to having his seeds crushed by the tax man? If RDS did recieve any support, it certainly appears that the dad didn't provide it. Hats Off To Savage !

Hi all, Thanks John regarding George Stephenson. It was just a shot. Howard, have you or Ivor or Harris ever noticed that D'Onston's father died in January 1889. It's rather close in date to the Whitechapel Murders. One can make a possible logic jump that if D'Onston was the murderer, word that his father was gravely ill might have caused him to stop his work in Whitechapel, and go back to Hull. Best wishes, Jeff

J.B. Thanks for positing that question. Of the numerous reasons why Nina and I and the other folks [ hopefully you now likewise ] are exploring the parents,wills,relations,etc. is that your question has gone unanswered all these years and should be,if it could be. In the case of almost every suspect in the WM...from Druitt..Tumbelty..Ostrog...Barnett..obviously the Royals..ad infinitum...regarding these people...everyone's source of income is accounted for ....except this one. Living off of women..a scant few articles in the PMG...and ? Up until the inevitably failed cosmetic company that Mrs. Collins bankrolled, RDS' sources of income are listed few and far between. We think its rather important to find out where he recieved his monies. Previous research into this issue hasn't been successful. We may be more productive. Jeff, from my view, and its only my opinion,not anyone elses, I believe that RDS and the father may have been on the outs since 1876,when he married Deary. We're talking about a man [ the father ] who was becoming more involved with his society at large and had a degree of influence in it [ remembering how he landed RDS his job at the Customs House ], its fairly easy to see that the marriage in 1876 of his youngest son to the family servant could get this man,considering the times, to cut off RDS in more ways than one. Thats why,imho,I don't think RDS recieved any money from him. I'm looking towards the mama and other relations. Could RDS have gone back to Hull when his father was dying ? Good point. We know RDS was engaging in those shenanigans with Marsh just a fortnight before the father died, so your guess is as good as anyone elses. If he was ostracized,just leaving London Hospital and moving to St.Martins prior to the death of his dad,maybe not,in my book.
Hi Howard, The father may not have lost the lot as you suggest. He could have transferred it to his wife, sons or others for legal reasons. I guess that his wife's will would be more interesting, and I shall continue to search for that. From the details I have given above you could obtain a full copy of the will from the York Porbate Registry for ££5.

[How Brown]

It's also bearing in mind that this ££178. 14s 6d. was personal estate only, and therefore wouldn't have included real estate, where the bulk of many people's wealth would lie. Chris Phillips


Hi Chris Phillips, Going back to an earlier post of yours regarding Charles Street. I have just had a browse through "The True Face of JTR" by Melvyn Harris. He states that Donstons birth certificate shows him to have been born in Charles Street, in a large middle class house, and that his father was co-proprietor of the firm of Dawber & Stephenson, bone and seed crushers and linseed oil manufacturers. Rgds John

[How Brown]

From Hull Mr Brown sir, I send you one or two photographs I took today of sites related to these seed crushing Stephensons. The first one was taken looking north in present day Wincolmlee (formerly Church Street) to show the approximate sight of Union Mill, owned by Richard Stephenson. Many of the old buildings have disappeared, but any one of the three buildings on the left of the picture could have been Union Mill, although the middle one bears the name of Grosvenor Mill. The low brick wall in the foreground is Stone Chair, this was originally some steps leading down to the River Hull, were the inhabitants of the Charterhouse, an ancient almeshouse, went to collect water. It marks the ancient boundary between the parishes of Trippett and Sculcoates.

[How Brown]

Just across the road is the Charterhouse, which was once in the charge of the father of Andrew Marvel, opposite that is the Masters house, a blue plaque in the wall reads "here from 1624 until 1640 while his father was master of the Charterhouse lived Andrew Marvel (1621-1678), poet, public servant and member of parliament for Kingston Upon Hull" The building was exstensivley rebuilt in the 1950's following war damage. (Slightly off topic, but what the hell)

Just across the road is the Charterhouse, which was once in the charge of the father of Andrew Marvel, opposite that is the Masters house, a blue plaque in the wall reads "here from 1624 until 1640 while his father was master of the Charterhouse lived Andrew Marvel (1621-1678), poet, public servant and member of parliament for Kingston Upon Hull" The building was exstensivley rebuilt in the 1950's following war damage. (Slightly off topic, but what the hell)

Oak House, North Bar Within, Beverley, this large house in probably the most prosperous street in town shows that Robert Ranby Stephenson must surely have been a wealthy man ( I believe he was also proprietor of the Beverley Aerated Water Company). A plaque on the chimney breast bears the date 1880, although from the size of the bricks I would have expected it to have been older, the black and white timbering on the upper floors may well not be original, as this was a style popular in the 1920-30's. The house next door, also with black and white timbering has a wood carving above the front door with the date 1894.

[How Brown]

Isabella Stephenson - died 1891? I have checked the National Probate Calendars for 1891-96 and can find no will, although it is not unknown for a will to be proved many years after death. Also I have checked the death registers for 1891 and cannot find anyone under the name Isabella who died in the Hull area in 1891. I found two, one aged 8 and the other in her 30's, but in other parts of the country. Can you check that Isabella is the correct name and also year? Thanks John

John, Isabella Stephenson (Age 81) 1891 June quarter, Sculcoates, East Riding of Yorkshire Volume 9d Page 194 Nina

Hi Howard, Land Transactions for Hull and East Yorkshire where recorded in the Yorkshire Registry of Deeds, however registration was not compulsory so there is no guarantee we will find anything. It is a few years since I last had to go there and I recall that you need to have very specific information of dates, addresses etc. These records are held by the East Riding County Council at Beverley. Rgds John

Thanks,my man. I think the exact date of Isabells and the old man's deaths are here.. Isabella Stephenson (Age 81) 1891 June quarter, Sculcoates, East Riding of Yorkshire Volume 9d page 194 The father, Richard, died in January 1889.. If you go,let us know how you make out,John..if not,then we can try to access it from here.

Hi Howard, I really have nothing to add here, except that my reflexes have slowed down of late - I suddenly realized the title of this thread "From HULL" is a inside joke. I startled I did not think about what was the basis for that title to the thread. I guess you caught me when you could, Mr. Brown. Best wishes, Jeff

J.B. "I guess you caught me when you could.." Howaboutdat ! It ain't supposed to be easy sneakin' up behind a New Yorker. Hope you understood the old school Yiddish on that other thread [ D'onston in 1891 ]... If I hadn't put the letters so close together,I think you would have caught it right off the bat, J.B.

[How Brown]

Dear Mr Brown.. Thank you for your e mail referred to me by Gareth Watkins. I have checked the entries listed in your message and can confirm that the males were not brothers. Additionally, Hull and Sculcoates were separate registration districts until 1937. Yours sincerely Dorothy Parker Superintendent Registrar

----Original Message----- From: Scotthorne Kerry On Behalf Of Register Office Sent: 27 May 2005 08:35 To: Parker Dorothy Subject: FW: Hello Mr. Watkins !!!

Dear Mr.Watkins... A few days ago,I asked for information on some people who lived in Sculcoates back in the 1840's.... Is it possible for you to check and see if the two males listed here are brothers? I sincerely appreciate anything you can find,sir. It lists these Stephenson births in the West Sculcoates subdistrict in 1841: STEPHENSON, Mary E, West Sculcoates, Hull, WES/2/126 STEPHENSON, Richard R, West Sculcoates, Hull, WES/2/143 STEPHENSON, Robert D, West Sculcoates, Hull, WES/2/130 Also,was Sculcoates a part of Hull in the 1840's or a separate entity with its own registry? So it looks like these two Stephensons were not brothers,according to Mrs. Parker.

Howard, I have now checked the National Probate Calendars from 1891-1902 for Issablla Stephenson's will, but without success. This does not mean that she did not make one as probate can sometimes be granted many years after death (I came across some Stephensons of Beverley were probate was granted up to 40 years after death). It may also be that because of the low value of her husbands estate, she had nothing worth making a will for, if you obtain his will that may be a next step in our research. I did come across the following in the calendars for 1899: Stephenson Mary Elizabeth of Hull Bridge near Beverley Yorkshire (wife of Arthur Stephenson died 14 December 1898 at 10 Wyndham Place Bryanston Square Middlesex Probate London 25 January to the said Arthur Stephenson merchant. Effects ££230. I do not know if this is relevant, however Bryanston Square, London is a very central address, off Oxford Street, a few hundred yards from Marble Arch, so would indicate wealth, and a London connection. Rgds John

Howard I have just checked the registers for Robert Ranby Stephenson. Death Certificate: Age 80 June quarter 1919, Beverley 9a 102 Birth Certificate: June quarter 1838, Beverley, 23 9 Rgds John

Hi Howard , I came across a catalogue for an auction, May 1880, for a Robert Stephenson who was leaving Beverley. I don't know yet if he is connected to our Stephensons, but it is clear that he had money, so I thought you might like a look at the opening page.


Lord Savage, you are spectacular,sir. If you go to this auction,check out what sort of wines they have and pick up a bottle or two...After 125 years,they oughta be powerful potables for sure ! Thanks for sharing this, John ! Very nice find. P.S. I could use a new loin cover ,if they have any left. Spot me a tenner and I'll pay ya back. I'm good for it.

[How Brown]

Hi John In regard to your post about the look of Oak House, North Bar Within, Beverley, once owned by Robert Ranby Stephenson, you state: "A plaque on the chimney breast bears the date 1880, although from the size of the bricks I would have expected it to have been older, the black and white timbering on the upper floors may well not be original, as this was a style popular in the 1920-30's."

John, you are correct, of course, that "mock Tudor" was popular in the 1920-30's, and the house in which I lived in south Liverpool, up the street from Jim and Florie Maybrick's Battlecrease mansion (!), was built in that period, and had such half timbering on the gable. However, the style was also used, although on a less widespread scale, in the later nineteenth century, after the revived Gothic style had been popularized by Pugin.

for his soap factory workers, is one of the most famous examples of such revival half-timbered architecture in the period. See photo below. In terms of the bricks visible in the Stephenson house, I should think that if they are regular size bricks they are consistent with the period as well -- small bricks usually denote an older building. Elizabethan bricks, for example, were considerably smaller than modern bricks, so that if the bricks are large that is usually an indication that the building is a modern, i.e., 19th-20th century, "mock" half timbered building. All my best

C.G.

[How Brown]

Hi Chris, Thanks for the information about Port Sunlight and the "mock tudor", it is many years since I drove quickly through Port Sunlight, and I had quite forgotten about it. Also I never realised how old it was. The bricks used at Oak House are of a smaller size than the mass produced ones of the late victorian period, and also appear to be worn more than I would have expected. Below is a picture of the chimney breast showing a detail of the brickwork, I would be most grateful for your thoughts. It may not help us find Jack, but at least it may help settlt my curiousity.

Hi Howard, From a file of previous correspondence that I found whilst snooping around the local library, I was able to find the following information on the Stephenson family. In local directories, a Richard Stephenson first appears in the 1830’’s as a bone and cake merchant, at 47, Silvester Street, Hull. By 1840 a Richard Stephenson appears as a member of the firm of Dawber and Stephenson, bone, linseed, and rape cake crushers and merchants, North Side, Old Dock, with a home address at 35 Charles Street. A Robert Dawber is listed at 135 Church Street, Sculcoates. By 1846 Dawber and Stephenson is not listed, but a Robert Stephenson is given as a bone and seed crusher, Church Street, Sculcoates. From 1851 the entries are as follows: - 1851 Richard Stephenson, merchant and bone and seed crusher, Union Mills 135 Church Street, Wincolmlee. 1855 Richard Stephenson, Union bone and oil mill, Church Street. 1858-1861 Richard Stephenson, bone and seed crusher and oil merchant, Church Street Wincolmlee, and blood manure works Bankside Sculcoates. 1863 Richard Stephenson Jun. Of Rayner Stephenson & Co. house, Willow House Sculcoates. (N.B. Rayner, Stephenson & Co are listed as merchants at Princes Chambers, High Street) Richard Stephenson, blood manure works, Bankside, Sculcoates. 1867 Richard Stephenson & Co. bone and glue manufacturers, Bankside. Richard Stephenson (Stephenson & Co) and receiver of Corporation dues; h. Willow House, Sculcoates. Richard Stephenson, jun. Merchant and shipowner (Rayner, S. & Co) and vice-consul for Uruguay; h. Willow House, Sculcoates. 1872 Richard Stephenson, shipbroker, High Street; res. Willow House, Church Street, Sculcoates. Richard Stephenson, glue mfr., 16 John Street. 1874/5 Not listed in alphabetical commercial section. Richard Stephenson, Church Street, listed in private resident’’s section. 1876 Not listed in alphabetical section Not listed in street section No Willow House listed on Church Street. 1879 Not listed in commercial section A Richard Stephenson is listed in private residents section at 48, Spring Bank From the 1867 Hull directory and the 1866/7 Burgess Roll it appears that Willow House was in Church Street, Sculcoates. The 1861 census for Church Street, shows Richard Stephenson, linseed rapeseed and bone crusher, and his family at 135 Church Street Sculcoates, including Robert D. Stephenson, aged 19. By 1871 the occupant of Willow House is given as Richard Stephenson Jnr. Aged 31, listed as consul, Councillor, and timber merchant. An attempt to trace Willow House was made and an O.S. map of 1853 shows a large house in the area with industrial housing beginning to surround it, but the next map surveyed in 1889/90, shows the whole area completely built up, with a Willow Terrace on the site of the large house. Rgds John

Thanks for that interesting info, very useful indeed. One point. In the 1851 census there is an entry for Robert Dawber as head of the household living at 35 Charles Street. It appears that the Stephensons and the Dawbers were into house swapping. I guess they could afford it... ---------------------------------------------- 1851 - 35 Charles Street, Hull, East Yorkshire HO107/2361/586 Robert DAWBER Head M 39 Bone Merchant Hull, YKS (& others) #138 Mary Ann EELES Serv U 15 House Servant Hull, YKS ---------------------------------------------- Any thoughts on this??? Spiro


Hi auspirograph, Thanks for that entry from the 1851 census, very interesting. It is hard to tell what was going on, but we already know of the close connection between the Dawber and the Stephenson families. I will make two suggestions:- (a) Dawber sold the house to Richard Stephenson. (b) Dawber rented part of the house to Richard Stephenson. Over the weekend I shall be having a look down Charles Street to see if number 35 still exists, however I have my doubts, as a world war, slum clearance and a new road have left very few original buildings. Rgds John
Hey Spiro ! Glad to see you !! John........This relationship between these two families seems pretty close. It brings up a new idea,to me at least,as you may have already considered it.. ...that someone in the Dawber family,possibly an Uncle to RDS, may have left something to him. In addition,maybe someone in the Dawber clan provided a source of money for RDS during his life. I wonder if the Dawber's were affluent.... Thanks for the addition,Spiro...appreciated,mon ami !

[How Brown]

Hi Howard, This relationship between the Dawbers and the Stephensons does look very close, and certainly I think it worth further investigation. Were the Dawbers affluent? Did you ever meet a poor solicitor? Interestingly I just found two entries in the local telephone directory for the name Dawber. Rgds John


Hi Howard, As I am sure you will recall Donston suffered a gunshot wound whilst sailing off Flamborough, he was taken ashore at Flamborough and removed to Bridlington for surgery. It being a beautiful summer day, we were out that way today, and the below picture is of North Landing, Flamborough, were Donston was most likely taken ashore. This is one of several small bays set into the cliffs and in my opinion excellent smuggling territory.


Hi All, A few days ago on another thread, we were talking about Donston's work at the customs house in Hull. This got we wondering were the building may have been. A little investigation revealed that it was located in Whitefriargate, now part of the city's main shopping area. What is more I have walked past it a thousand times without ever realising that this was were Donston would have worked. The building was first constructed in 1797 as the Neptune Inn, and became the customs house c1810-1911. The below picture shows only half of the building, as the street being very narrow, I was unable to get a better photo.

John.. Thanks as always for your yeoman work and photos. I wish I could take pictures as well as you. Thats a good 'un. Out of curiosity,do you know where they took the records of the original Customs House after they moved from there? Would they be in a newer version of The Customs House or perhaps down at "City Hall" ? Thank you,sor.........



Hi Howard, Glad you liked the photograph, not one of my best and now the camera has started giving me messages in German! When the customs house above closed they transfered to a building a few hundred yards away in Lowgate (now a restaurant called "The Old Custom House") That one was replaced in the 1950/60's, so I guess that a lot of old records, would have been destroyed at each move. I doubt that anything would have been transferred to the City Hall or Guildhall, as Her Majesty's Customs and Excise is a government department, quite seperate from local government. What records were you thinking of speciffically? Rgds John

Sav: It would be nice to access personnel files from 1868,which I'm sure you would agree with,for this reason below, if not others..... It would be also be nice to see what duties RDS performed there....not to mention his drumming out from the C.H. I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't mention the specifics as Harris intimated from the short excerpt in True Face [ possibly venereal disease or associating with prostitutes or whatever the women were described as..or maybe he sucked at his job ?]. However,maybe we could do better at gauging all the details.... Great work all around my friend ! All the best


Hi Howard I have today been at the Brynmor Jones Library at the University of Hull were I have discovered a file of some two hundred or more documents relating to the Stephenson family of Beverley. As visitors are only allowed in the afternoon between 2 –– 5pm I have not yet studied these files fully, today I managed only about eight or ten and going through them all is going to take a few weeks, as and when I can find the time. The file appears to deal largely with the seed crushing family of Stephenson of Hull Bridge, and I should remind you that I have not yet proved conclusively that old sudden death is related to them, although it is to my mind likely. I shall be writing up a full report of my visit at the weekend and will post it here if you wish. In the meantime, from this file, I have been looking at the bank books of one John Stephenson (died c1904) who it seems was the owner of the Hull Bridge mill until his death. Now what caught my attention was that in some of these bank books quarterly payments of ££2 13s 4d. are made to someone or something called R d S (and in one instance R d Stephenson). These payments continue until 18th. November 1905 after which time they no longer appear, but other quarterly payments to A Stephenson carry on until at least 12th. May 1908. I cannot yet say for sure if these payments are relevant, but it is possible that this could be some sort of annuity paid to Donston. As I have said it is going to take time to read and absorb this very large collection, so please remember that at the moment I am still ""finding my way"". Below is a page from one of John Stephenson’’s bank books

[How Brown]

John: Its good I suppose that you live so far away from me. Because if you were standing here,I would crush you much akin to the seeds of Stephenson with a bear hug !!! What a potentially great find !!!! Take your time,my man...take your time. Maybe you've found a source for the Great Freeloaders room and board. Great work,John !!!


Marvellous work, John! If this turns out to be a payment to Donston, it wouldn't keep him in the lap of luxury - about four bob a week - but it would go very nicely with any other money he had coming in. Robert


Hi Robert, The same thought had occurred to me, and I am guessing that there was a reason for the rather odd looking amount. As I am sure you will know the sum of 13s. 4d. is exactly two thirds of a pound, so therefore the amount is an exact division of some larger, possibly annual amount. I am not sure what or where or why just yet, but any observations from anyone would be welcome.

Howard, Thank the lord you are safely across the water, I am flattered that you should want to hug me, but I do bruise easily! Rgds John


Hi John Well, if it was quarterly, then multiplying it by 4 will still not give a whole number. Maybe the sum was to be paid over a fixed number of years, then it might come to a whole number. Or maybe RDS was getting a third share of something - perhaps there were two surviving siblings? Of course, there's always the possibility that the numbers had some occult and mystical significance..... Robert


Howard, You ask "Do you now think that this may be some other sort of payout and perhaps not to Sudden Death at all?" The simple answer is that I am not sure, but if I can link Donston to this family at Hull Bridge, then it would be more than likely to be payments to him, only time and further research is going to answer the question. I am hoping to be back at the University next Tuesday, so more then. In the meantime I did also copy one page of a bank book that gives us better information, which I post below. Robert, Good thought about the widow Anne, do you recall the year that sudden death caught up with our man?

John: Robert's correct. The death cert. was found by Nina Thomas and is on the thread "Fate of Anne Deary". Its dated 1896....


General Directory of Kingston-upon-Hull and York, 1851.

Hi Robert, Thanks for that entry from the General Directory Kingston Upon Hull 1851.There are some interesting connections here as we have an Rt Stephenson & son Brewers as well as an R Stephenson & Son Seed Crushers. I wonder if the brewer Stephenson supplied the beer to the Crown and Anchor Pub? (still exists I am glad to say). Also interesting that the Hull Bridge site had a malthouse, which is more to do with brewing than seed crushing. If I were you I should not worry too much about tracing the family tree, I think the files I have found will probably tell us that. But if you find any more on the Rt Stephenson above, that may be interesting. Rgds John

There is a Robert R Stephenson, brewer and maltster employing 10 men, lodging at the home of Harry Adams in 1871. He is age 32. Address, Saturday Market, Beverley St Mary. In 1881 he is living with his sister Susan, 36, at Nth Bar St without, Beverley St Mary. In 1891 he is with brothers James, 49, and Arthur, 38, at Nth Bar St without. James and Arthur are oil seed crushers. The IGI lists James Stephenson born 24 Dec 1841 St Mary and St Nicholas, Beverley. Parents John Stephenson and Elizabeth. Arthur Stephenson born 17 Jan 1853 St Mary and St Nicholas, Beverley, parents John Stephenson and Elizabeth. Robert Ranby Stephenson born St John and St Martin, Beverley 16 June 1838 parents John and Elizabeth. In 1861 Robert's address seems to be Hull Bridge, living with younger brother Richard 17 and father John 59, merchant, widower. His occupation is still brewer and maltster. This worried me because I was expecting to find a Robert Stephenson brewer with father Robert Stephenson brewer. But maybe Robert Stephenson and Son was just the name of the company, harking back to some earlier brewer called Robert Stephenson? Perhaps also John Stephenson father of Robert was also the father of the John Stephenson whom John is researching. Robert


Hi Robert, Thanks for this very useful information. I have previously dug out information on Robert Ranby, and he was indeed a brewer, but also his entry in the probate register lists him as a seed crusher, together with other information I am satisfied that he is part of the Beverley and Hull Bridge family of seed crushers. What we really need is a connection between anyone of these people to the Stephensons of Hull. I have posted information on this thread earlier about Robert Ranby, and have even included a picture of his house. Rgds John


Hi All, Sometime ago Chris Scott found some details of William Hugh Stephenson of Beverley, and I have found in the Hull Daily Mail a report of his wedding in 1902 to Miss Ethel Hearsfield. Unfortunately I cannot post the original here as I am unable to reduce it to an acceptable size. However it appears to have been quite an occassion, and amongst those present to witness the ceremony were: Dr. Stephenson (father of the bridegroom), Mr and Mrs. Stephenson, Mr. and Mrs. A Stephenson, Messrs. Robert and James Stephenson and many others well known in East Riding society. The bride's wedding dress was a gift from Mrs. Clapham, and Madame Clapham (to give her the professional name) was a locally well known dressmaker who supplied dresses for society figures and also crowned heads of Europe. Rgds John.

[How Brown]

"Robert and James Stephenson and many others well known in East Riding society..." Dear Johnny.....Is that part that I have underlined how it is written in the write up verbatim??? Another good find !

Hi Howard, That is not exactly how it is written in the article as I have left out one or two names that did not seem to be of any interest to us. As these two are reffered to as "Messrs. Robert and James Stephenson" I think it likely that they are the young sons of one of the Stephenson families. I have e mailed you the full article. And now for something cokpletely different.

You will remember that sometime ago I posted a picture of Oak House, North Bar Within, Beverley, the home of Robert Ranby Stephenson. Well a couple of hundred yards up the street is a large house or block of houses, the plaque over the porch reads "Stephenson Terrace 1883". I am not sure if it has anything to do with Robert Ranby or any of the other Stephensons we are looking at, but I took a photograph and here it is.


Further research at the Brynmor Jones Library, has confirmed that the brewers Robert Stephenson & Sons of Beverley were part of the same family as the seed crushers of Hull Bridge. I found a lease dated 1904 between Robert Ranby Stephenson, William Hugh Stephenson and Arthur Stephenson on the one part and Arthur Stephenson [the same] and Maurice Jewel Stephenson on the other part for the premises at Hull Bridge including the seed crushing mill and local public house. This as a result of the death of John Stephenson of Beverley and in accordance with his will of 17th. May 1901. From other documents I was able to confirm that Hull Bridge House also was the home of the late John Stephenson. It is also seems that the family were land owners, owning farms and cottages in the area of Lund, a small village about 5 miles from Beverley. I drove out to Lund and a quick look around the church yard confirmed that there is a family burial plot for a family called Stephenson. Below is a photograph of the public house called the Crown and Anchor, and to the right is Hull Bridge House

16 JOHN STREET, HULL Earlier in this thread I have made mention of a Richard Stephenson, glue manufacturer who lived at this address in 1871. As John Street runs off Charles Street, were Donston was born, I decided to take a closer look at this address. John Street appears to have been built in the early 19th. Century, probably about 1822, however on a map dated 1856 there is one plot which remains vacant, this is the site of number 16, so I conclude that the house was built sometime between 1856 ––1871. The house still remains and from the architecture it is clearly of a later period than the rest of the street. Robert Linford kindly provided details of the occupants of this house, and confirmed that a Richard Stephenson is listed in 1871. (Although I am unsure if this is the father or son.) In 1881 the occupant is George Bower, born London, minister Christ Church, plus family, also staying with him was Elizabeth A Lord, whom we know from Richard senior’’s will to be his daughter. In 1891 the occupant is Joseph Hewlett, HM Customs, born Hull, plus family, and at No. 15 was William Stephenson, timber merchant, plus family, born Grantham, Lincolnshire. In 1901 the occupant is one Edward Ripper and family, whilst William Stephenson still lives at No. 15.

As number 16 is no more than 50 yards from the junction with Charles Street, and we have a clear connection in Elizabeth A Lord, I feel sure that this must have been a later address for the family. In the picture below No. 16 is the green gabled house, and Charles Street can be seen to the left of the picture.



Hi All, Just to complete things, here is a picture taken in Charles Street, showing the junction with John Street. I wonder if Mr. Ripper ever drank in the New Clarence pub?



John, thanks for that. Those houses look in excellent condition. Bit of a misunderstanding here : Elizabeth A Lord was at Spring St with the Stephensons in 81, not John St with the Bowkers. However, I think there was quite possibly a continuing link, because the two subsequent occupants had occupations connected to those of the family : minister and customs. The Stephenson at John St in 71 was the Senior. The Junior was with Anne Deary. Robert


Hi Robert, Thanks for clearing that up, I am afraid I misunderstood what you wrote to me. However if Richard senior was living here in 1871, then it must clearly have been the family home and I think shows that the family would have been middle class tradespeople, not stinking rich but not poor either.

Any chance you could find an 1861 census, and see who (if anyone) is listed? Rgds John


Hi John In 1861 at 16 John St is Nicholas Osbourne (and family) retired customs clerk. The numbering goes 16, 20, 21, 22... Robert


Hi Robert, Thanks for looking that up, it seems that this house was popular with employees of HM Customs, I suppose there must be a reason, perhaps we shall find out. Rgds

John


John, could HM Customs have owned the house, putting various employees into it in the same way the C of E does with vicars? Robert


Oh no! I spoke too soon. I've just had a look at Kelly's Hull directory for 1904, and at 16 John St was Rev. Thomas Roberts, vicar of Christ Church. Robert


And another vicar : Rev. Arthur Henderson Huntley, vicar of Christ Church (Kelly's Directory of N & E Ridings of Yorkshire, 1913. [Part 2: York & Hull]) Robert


Hi Robert, Thanks for all this information, I am sure I don't quite know what to make of it all at the moment, a selection of customs officers and clerics, I( had the same thing happen a few years ago when I was investigating the Hull connections of Lewis Carroll. The only thing that worries me is the reference you have found for 1851, as the map I looked at for 1856 shows the plot to be vacant. Ah well. John

[How Brown]

John, it gets worse, if this is the same John St. JUNE 21st 1887



Perry's lists partnership dissolved between Robert Dawber and Richard Stephenson, bone and seed merchants and crushers, Kingston upon Hull, July 31st 1843. Robert


Wasn't there a Cremers or Cassini from St Petersburg? Robert


Miss Benson seems to have run a boarding house in St Petersburg before returning to England and running a hotel in Mansfield St, Portland Place in 1855.

Robert


I think she was living next door to Donston's dad in 1881. She at 46, he at 48, Spring St. Robert


If this is the right Elizabeth Benson, then not only did she have a St Petersburg connection, but she seems to have been a rich old lady. I wonder if Donston got his hands on any of it. 46 Spring St Elizabeth Benson, unmarried, 77, income derived from dividends, born Sunderland Barbara Benson, unmarried, niece, 38, income derived from dividends, born Sunderland plus one servant. Robert


She seems to have got into financial trouble in 1856 - she and Sarah Benson (probably a sister) were in Perry's that year. Robert


Robert: Yes there was a Cremers from St.Petersburg. Some guy named Robert Charles Linford found this information on this URL [ its on the Cremers thread....]

Hi How. I don't think it was me. Anyways, I think when the wallet creaks open, Miss Benson's will ought to be one of the things we have a look at. Robert

Hi Robert, More interesting information, thanks for posting. As far as I know there was only one John Street in Hull, but I shall try to check if there may have been another. It may be worth noting that Sunderland, birth place of Elizabeth Benson, is only about 10 miles from Newcastle upon Tyne, the home of Rev. Samuel Lord, who was executor of Richard Stephenson, the father of Donston. I shall try to consult the national probate calendars next week to see if there is a record of Miss Benson's will. Rgds John


Thanks John. I dare say the niece got most of it, but I wonder if Donston had an allowance before/after her death. Robert


Hi Robert, From the National Probate Calendars 1887 "Benson Elizabeth. 30 November. The will with two codicils (the second codicil being contained in writings A and B) of Elizabeth Benson late of 16 John Street in the Borough of Kingston upon Hull spinster who died 18 June 1887 at Kingston upon Hull was proved at York by William Gray of 16 John Street Merchant's Clerk the surviving executor. Estate ££1,620 2. 3d." It is interesting to note that in Melvin Harris book "The True Face of JTR" an Edwin Gray "timber merchant Hull" superintended the landing of the wounded Donston at Flamborough. Rgds John

[How Brown]

Bump Up of an ancient thread..in case anyone was looking for information on RDS