JtR and the Indian wars...

[Nemo]

In 1866 there was a massacre by Amerindians of soldiers at Fort Phil Kearny

The bodies of the soldiers were subjected to scalping, disembowelment, mutilation of the sexual organs, cutting off of ears and noses and dismemberment

The mutilations were said to be in revenge for the similar massacres by soldiers and civilians of Indian men women and children, some of whom were raped and had their sexual organs removed

The case was discussed during 1867, but the mutilations were supposedly so horrific that details were not released for 20 years - ie not til 1886/7

Does anybody know of these later reports, what they contain, and where they were published?

Col Carrington was the commanding officer...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-vetscor/1638957/posts

Finally, in 1887, Carrington's dogged pursuit of the official release of his long-suppressed reports and testimony paid off when Senator Henry Dawes of Massachusetts introduced a bill demanding that the War Department and the Department of the Interior publish these documents

[Chris G.]

Hello Nemo

Mutilation of the bodies of vanquished enemies was a reality of Indian warfare. I am not sure that the Fetterman Massacre (http://www.epinions.com/review/The_Fetterman_Massacre_by_Dee_Brown/content_39432130180) was exceptional in that respect. It is stomach turning to read about such mutilations. The bodies of the soldiers of the 7th Cavalry were mutilated after the Battle of Little Bighorn in 1876. Such mutilations were often carried out by the Indian squaws with the braves scalping the bodies of their enemies but not carrying out the other mutilations. It is said that General George Armstrong Custer's body alone was not mutilated, presumably because of the regard that the victorious warriors had for the defeated U.S. Army commander.

In terms of records of the Fetterman Massacre, the article you mentioned would seem to cite some references from the 1880's which might bear fruit. See footnote 4 which mentions, "Senate Resolution of February 11, 1887, Papers Relative to Indian Operations on the Plains, 50th Cong., 1st sess., 1888, S. Doc. 33,20-21,51-53 [hereafter U.S. Senate, Indian Operations on the Plains]. Published twenty years alter the Fetterman battle, this document contains testimony and evidence given by Carrington to the special commission called by Congress to investigate the Fetterman incident." Congressional documents can be found on-line. A search might bring up what you are looking for.

Chris

[Nemo]

Thanks Chris, I'll take a look at those Congressional documents

I was wondering what English press coverage was like in regard to this incident

Interesting that the Indians were accused of barbarism in their methods of mutilation whereas the Indians regarded it as retaliation for similar attacks on their people - not as a regular practice of their own, beside scalping probably

[Chris G.]

Hi Nemo

There is a good case to be made that it was actually whites who introduced scalping to the native Americans. At the time of the Seven Years War, known as the French and Indian War on this side of the Atlantic, the British offered bounties for scalps.

I was wrong before about Custer not being mutilated... two squaws did pierce his eardrums with a sewing awl. This Daily Mail article reviewing a book on the Battle of Little Bighorn (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1289686/General-Custers-reckless-ego-led-men-needless-deaths-famed-Last-Stand-Little-Bighorn-new-book-reveals.html) and its aftermath does talk about genital mutilation so to that extent what was done to Custer's men paralleled what happened in the Fetterman Massacre.

Chris

[How Brown]

Nemo:

Indians weren't introduced to scalping. The redskin can take full credit for this one.
http://www.mohicanpress.com/mo08018.html

[Nemo]

Thanks Chris - Was it correct that the last white man standing at the Big Horn massacre was a red-headed Irishman?

Nice link Howard, with some interesting facts

I remember reading of a man who was crossing America and was attacked by Indians who allowed him to live because they were in awe of his toupee, false teeth, and the pipe he was smoking...

I was really wondering if the suspicion of the cowboys and Indians in England of being involved in the WM was due to some articles that may have appeared in the papers shortly before the WM commenced, similar to the Malays

I don't think I've heard muslims or asian Indians being possible suspects but there were massacres on their behalf at Cawnpore and Khartoum, for example, more recently than any Red Indian massacre

[Chris G.]

Nemo:

Indians weren't introduced to scalping. The redskin can take full credit for this one.
http://www.mohicanpress.com/mo08018.html

Thanks, Howard, for directing us to that website. I do remember that from my previous digging into the matter of scalping ... no first hand knowledge though... :rolleyes: controversy exists on whether the Europeans introduced it or if the native Americans were already doing it. Is the author Mr. George A. Bray a disinterested party, or is he showing us some "evidence" that seems to prove his case but may not?

Incidentally none other than the great Benjamin Franklin was responsible for something called the "Scalp Hoax" during the Revolutionary War. This was some propaganda he whipped up while he was in France spreading the rumor that the British were paying for the scalps of white Americans.

Chris

[How Brown]

Incidentally none other than the great Benjamin Franklin was responsible for something called the "Scalp Hoax" during the Revolutionary War. This was some propaganda he whipped up while he was in France spreading the rumor that the British were paying for the scalps of white Americans.

I've heard that myself,CG....thank you for reminding us.

[Nemo]

You may be right Chris - the reply at the bottom of that website mentions the controversy and that scalping was practiced by the Visigoths and Franks and such

The author is a Major in re-enactment circles only and cites his sources in his reply

I know races such as the Apaches were renowned for their "torture", but I seem to recall that they required their captive victims to scream loudly before they died for them to gain "power"

It was also said that despite the variety of horrific tortures they could come up with, they thought that that the European practice of imprisonment and long term incarceration was the worst punishment of all

[How Brown]

Yeah,I know its Wikipedia....but there is a reference to scalping on here which might be of interest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalping

In any event,Indians practiced scalping in the early 14th Century in North America..and that they perpetrated it upon the Whites initially seems pretty solid.

[Chris G.]

Hi all

Here are web pages on the Fetterman massacre, or as they put it, in a more PC designation for today's world (!!!), the Fetterman Fight, as well as Fort Phil Kearny:

The Fetterman Fight (http://www.philkearny.vcn.com/fettermanfight.htm)

Fort Phil Kearny (http://www.philkearny.vcn.com/fortphilkearny.htm)

As you will see, buttons at the left on these linked webpages lead on to other pages that cover other themes from the period and their associated historical sites. The Fetterman page makes the point that "Only the Battle of the Little Big Horn stands as a worse defeat for the United States Army and a greater victory for the Plains Indians."

Chris