Up Close and Personal in Mitre Square

[admin tim]

http://secretlyido.blogspot.com/2005/07/jack-ripper-2.html

Not a lot left to the imagination here..:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Karen]

My word! After just perusing this account of the unfortunate events in Mitre Square, one gets the unmistakable feeling that they have just read the personal diary of Jack The Ripper. Most graphic, but even more importantly, disturbing!

[Perfect Virgo]

Glad you enjoyed that. I wrote a couple more pieces of prosaic speculation which may interest you.

http://secretlyido.blogspot.com/2005/06/jack-ripper.html

http://secretlyido.blogspot.com/2005/10/jack-ripper-3.html

[How Brown]

Perfect Virgo:

I remember visiting your site a while ago ( I think either Tim or myself "found" your URL...).

You have a way with words,sor....thats an interesting piece on what might have occurred after the murder of Mary Kelly.

May I ask....is that what you believe occurred after Kelly's murder ? ( Visit Perfect Virgo's site for his conclusion....;) )

Thank you,sir.

[Perfect Virgo]

Thank you How Brown! Emigration is a slightly romantic notion but one I feel might explain the seemingly complete end to activities without a suspect or trial. Francis Tumblety is a good example but not necessarily the ONE. Descent into madness is another strong possibility. Somewhere there is a family of English descent which harbours the secret. Someone knows because people talk.

Detective - I'm flattered by your compliments, thank you. When I write about this subject I want to try and capture the ugly reality not the cosy Victorian legend.

Admin - that was my imagination at work!

[How Brown]

Dear Perfect Virgo:

If one thinks objectively about what happened.... ( getting off the track for a second here....to me personally, the three "big" questions at this moment....always subject to change.....in the WM are: 1-Why take the organs 2-What happened to JTR in October 3-Where did he go after the last murder ) after Kelly's murder...

....did he integrate himself back into society or at least,his household with as little fanfare as it "seems" ?

Your scenario of a capable ( either financially or through the finances of others ) Ripper isn't a bad idea,sir. Unless a person believes that the subsequent murders in 1889 and beyond were from the same hand,then what did make him stop ?

A journey abroad or a collaborative effort at home in putting the killer on a short leash make sense. A lot of sense.

Few will argue that a killer such as JTR simply stops considering not necessarily an escalation of his "work"...but rather his success in his "work". Most people feel something drastic happened to the Ripper after Kelly....and not that he simply stopped.

Feel free to elaborate,P.F., on whatever scenarios you have in mind. You've got a captive audience,sor.:thumbsupbud:

[Perfect Virgo]

Dear How - thanks for giving me free rein. As you can see, my angle is one of an extremely interested bystander (aren't we all) who likes to include this violent topic in his various efforts at creative writing. I take the reported facts and speculate about the thoughts and actions of a killer. That said, I have theories but not a definitive suspect.

1. As to the organs, I know this sounds lame but I do accept the trophy notion. 20th century killers have done this.

2. I have not considered the October lull question in depth but I can imagine the killer alcohol and or drug dependent, so untreated illness might have been a debilitating factor - particularly in that time and place.

3. Personally I don't think the escalating depravity could have waned for the same hand to have then commited the 1889 murders. Integration back into society/family would seem an equally extraordinary turnaround. Even though I like the insanity idea, it seems to weaken when you consider the police would surely, to assuage the public at least, have paraded a candidate for all to see?

-- As my fiction suggested, emigration is my preferred guess, with the proceeds of robbery. Suicide is my second favourite though probably not Druitt. (I was born in Bournemouth btw). It would have been hard to escalate the savagery beyond Kelly so I agree it was something dramatic and abrupt that brought about an end to the sequence.

[How Brown]

Hi P.F. !

"1. As to the organs, I know this sounds lame but I do accept the trophy notion. 20th century killers have done this.

Not lame at all sir. Most people feel this way. They were small enough to conceal in a coat pocket. All that effort and merely toss them away?

I might be a little more gory than you,P.F. (;) ). Thats why I kick around the idea ( only an idea for sure ) that the monster ate them or disposed of them. It might depend on how evil we as two men percieve the Ripper....and yet the trophy idea has the weight of many experienced Ripperologists on its side.


2. I have not considered the October lull question in depth but I can imagine the killer alcohol and or drug dependent, so untreated illness might have been a debilitating factor - particularly in that time and place.

Good thoughts,P.F. I'd add the alarm after the Double Event...but possibly an injury during the Eddowes murder as well.

3. Personally I don't think the escalating depravity could have waned for the same hand to have then commited the 1889 murders. Integration back into society/family would seem an equally extraordinary turnaround. Even though I like the insanity idea, it seems to weaken when you consider the police would surely, to assuage the public at least, have paraded a candidate for all to see?

Wouldn't it be something if the Ripper did drown himself or take his own life and no one were the wiser? It took a while for Druitt's body ( 2 to 3 weeks or 4 weeks tops ) to surface. What if.....the Ripper's body never surfaced ??!!

The scene at Kelly's has a controlled,almost ritualistic,air to it ( the placing of the organs on the table as an example ) that is disturbing. To me,at least,there is a method to the madness in this murder.

All the best

How

[Debbie D]

Wouldn't it be something if the Ripper did drown himself or take his own life and no one were the wiser? It took a while for Druitt's body ( 2 to 3 weeks or 4 weeks tops ) to surface. What if.....the Ripper's body never surfaced ??!!

The scene at Kelly's has a controlled,almost ritualistic,air to it ( the placing of the organs on the table as an example ) that is disturbing. To me,at least,there is a method to the madness in this murder.

All the best

How

The Ripper's body may have surfaced after taking his life, but that would mean he wasn't on the list of suspects and no one made a big deal out of it. There are so many different possibilities here it seems endless :banghead:

[How Brown]

Deb:

Exactly. There were what, 5 million people in London in 1888 ?

A slice off a cut loaf ain't missed and I'm sure there were a few men who disappeared during that time who weren't noted in records.

[Perfect Virgo]

Hi How~ yep I definitely buy the drowned jumper whom the authorities didn't connect. Nobody knows absolutely no one though, everyone has/had a mother. Someone harboured a suspicion about a loner who suddenly disappeared.

There are several parallels with modern examples of serial murder. Escalating violence, trophy taking, targeting of a "type" etc... They point to the conclusion that other similarities would likely be evident if we only knew the whole picture. Eg: Loner, abused or unloved, reasonably intelligent, under-achiever, menial job (...we all know the list.) And the crucial bit, somewhere a trail is always left.

I have read all the books until the only certainty I can claim is, no one will establish the Ripper's identify solely from currently available facts. The "Diary" was seized upon so voraciously by many because it provided that long yearned-for new "evidence." I liked it for a long time but the background to its appearance and the subsequent goings-on ultimately detracted from its value. Actually you can still argue it quite strongly though so I go around in circles and keep an open mind.

One day something new will surface, an indisputable story, provable lineage and some documentary corroboration. I said this before, somewhere a family holds a secret - even a killer talks to someone, or someone suspects - just one person is enough. I don't propose a passed-down-by-word-of-mouth theory though, we need a new "diary," be it a list, a map, a journal or a plan. A hitherto unread piece of personal Victorian record that screams aloud "why did no one connect this before?"

Deb ~ I'm not a fan of mystery, I like answers. So like us all I keep reading between the lines for that overlooked snippet. And sometimes I make up my own snippets!