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WTM
10-22-2003, 08:58 PM
Excerpted from Murder Most Foul:

¡§Then he becomes an ageless pathological monster, crouching to kill, on evenings when the stars blaze down in the blazing patterns of death.¡¨
- Robert Bloch2

So reads the truly chilling tale by Robert Bloch, which has lost little of its power in the 59 years since it was first written. The essence of this fictional story is ¡¥mors tua, vita mea¡¦ ¡V ¡¥you die, that I may live¡¦, and has as its basis the theory that the Ripper had long ago made a covenant with the Dark Gods and would enjoy eternal life on earth so long as he made blood sacrifices at the proper times, when the stars were ¡¥right¡¦. Obviously an occult event.

The topic of ¡¥occult¡¦ encompasses black magic, witchcraft, sorcery, shamanism, satanism, ritual killings of a satanic nature, paganism, voodoo, mysticism, and all other related subjects with ties to the supernatural. All of these variations have at one time or another been practiced throughout history, and many are still in effect today, even among ¡¥civilized¡¦ peoples:

¡§All the victims were young prostitutes, and two of the murders involved elements of ritual torture and Satanism.¡¨17

¡§Human skulls are excavated from plundered graves for use by such groups as the Santorini Cult in the Caribbean. Every state in the Union contains cemeteries that have been plundered for bones by looters whose motives range from Satanism to plain old-fashioned madness.¡¨17

¡§Not surprisingly, Jeffrey Dahmer¡¦s need for control led him to dabble with Satanism¡¨.19

Another of the more prominent stories in the collection by C. Daly King, The Episode of the Headless Horrors7, involves a series of random beheadings that were plaguing the Pennsylvania ¡V New Jersey border area. The perpetrators turned out to be a pair of Haitian immigrants who, although appearing ¡¥normal¡¦ in the guises of a used-car salesman and garage owner, were practicing voodoo ritual murders of a most ghastly nature. Like the Ripper, they left the corpses of their victims in plain sight along heavily-traveled roads, the reason being that they knew that they would never be caught by the police in the short time frame in which they had to operate, and so they did not need to go to any particular trouble to dispose of the bodies by more conventional means.

And so we see in this fictional story methodology that may have been identical to that of the Ripper ¡V he may have done the same as these voodoo practitioners; committing the murders and the horrific mutilations as we have observed, simply because he knew that the authorities would never catch him in the short time frame that ¡¥black magic¡¦ rituals demanded. The concept of the Ripper as a ¡¥black magician¡¦ is a relatively new one, first appearing in an article in True Detective Magazine in 1973 ¡V ¡§Was Jack the Ripper a Black Magician?¡¨9 Since then, at least two books on the subject have appeared, both of which name Ripper suspect Roslyn D¡¦Onston Stephenson as the murderer and either sexual deviance or black magic rituals as his motive.

Given what historical data and evidence there is, and the recent observations and data collected by one of these authors, the concept and theory of the Ripper as ¡¥Black Magician¡¦ appear most promising. There are, however, a few problems with this theory, foremost of which is the small data population from which the conclusions were drawn. Statistically, it is impossible to draw such a definite conclusion from such a small data population, generated in so short a time, with an acceptable degree of confidence. This is not to say that the premise cannot be true; it is just that it is impossible to state so categorically and unreservedly from a mathematical standpoint. By way of comparison, let us examine the career of the Mad Butcher of Kingsbury Run, whose acknowledged victims numbered at least a dozen, in a crime spree that lasted at least three years. Although there was no such significance claimed for the patterns of this serial killer¡¦s crimes, any such data patterns that might have been observed and collected would have had a much greater statistical significance, due to the much larger data population and length of time over which the data would have been generated.

A good example of such a postulation involves the data used by Edmund Halley to conclude that he was dealing with a periodic comet, later to be known, of course, as Halley¡¦s Comet. Observations of comets made from earth early in history were naturally limited in scope, as very few data points could be observed prior to the invention of the telescope. Such data as there were fitted the curve of a parabola quite well and many astronomers were thus convinced that comets therefore passed by earth only once, as the orbit would then have been ¡¥open¡¦. This locus of data points had also been observed to fit an ellipse perfectly and other geometric forms and curves quite well, but a parabola was the favorite among the vast majority of astronomers at the time, there then being no concept of why an ellipse should instead be favored. It was not until the advent of Isaac Newton¡¦s concept of gravitational physics that the mystery was definitively solved ¡V comet orbits were elliptical, not parabolic. The original premise of a parabolic orbit was good, but there was simply not enough data available to make this accepted conclusion statistically significant.

Conclusion ¡V if the Ripper were a practitioner of the Black Arts, he would not have hesitated to kill and mutilate his victims, probably being limited only by the time, physical location, deaths, and human organs necessary as per the ¡¥sacred geometry¡¦ and other requirements of the prevailing ritual(s). His other motives for mutilation and leaving of the victims in public could have been as follows:

Mutilation
„h Jack the Bogeyman
„h Jack the Bad Man
„h Jack the Anarchist
„h Jack the Blind Man

Public Display

„h Jack the Practical Man
„h Jack the Bogeyman
„h Jack the Egotist
„h Jack the Obsessed
„h Jack the Anarchist
„h Jack the Litterbug

The Ripper¡¦s leaving of the victims in public would actually come as somewhat of a surprise, as, historically, other similar efforts have since been conducted in private and complete secrecy. Of course, a genuine ¡¥black magician¡¦ may also have had a wish ¡V and then an unparalleled opportunity - to shock, horrify, and show contempt for the pious Christian community surrounding him.



SOURCES:

1. Badal, James In the Wake of the Butcher

2. Bloch, Robert Yours Truly, Jack the Ripper

3. Crime SuspenStories, The Giggling Killer
EC Publications

4. Doyle, Sir Arthur Conan The Complete Sherlock Holmes
5. Futrelle, Jacques The Thinking Machine
6. Jesse, F. Tennyson Murder and its Motives
7. King, C. Daly The Curious Mr. Tarrant
8. Maples, William Dead Men Do Tell Tales
9. Rumbelow, Donald The Complete Jack the Ripper
10. Ryder, Stephen www.casebook.org
11. Scott, George A History of Torture
12. Sledge, Eugene With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa
13. Smithsonian Magazine, The Shadow of a Gunman from World War II
September 1993

14. Spitz. Werner, Medicolegal Investigation of Death, Second
and Fisher, Russell Edition

15. Styron William The Confessions of Nat Turner

16. Sugden, Philip The Complete History of Jack the Ripper

17. Ubelaker, Douglas Bones: A Forensic Detective¡¦s Casebook

18. von Krafft-Ebing, Richard Psychopathia Sexualis

19. http://www.crimelibrary.com

20. http://drugs.uta.edu/drugs.html

21. http://www.murdoch.edu.au/elaw/issues/v3n1/ridgway.html

22. http://65.107.211.206/

23. http://www.wcb.vcu.edu/wcb/students/acatasus/files/poecrit.html

24. http://www.daveschultz.com/scum/clinton/bodycount.html

25. http://www.sociology.org/vol003.002/hinch.article.1998.html

26. http://www.psycharts.com/impofthe.htm

27. http://www.stormloader.com/thescorpion/17evil.html

28. http://www.ihr.org/books/ztn.html

29. http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v281n22/ffull/jbk0609-1.html

30. http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf065/sf065p14.htm

D1g1TaL Gh0sT
11-27-2003, 10:09 PM
I can see the possibility of "black magic" playing into the Ripper murders, but not in the sense that some do. Many have claimed that Jack's possible influence in the black arts were the sole reason he could get away with what he did. That he had powers that made him able to turn invisible, or allow him to teleport away from the scene of the crime, just in the nick of time before being found out. I really don't buy into that aspect of it one, tiny bit. Maybe he read somewhere he could derive power from the killings themselves, or the post mortem retrieval of the organs, but I think that's as far a part as any "black magic" played into what he did.

How Brown
12-11-2003, 10:58 PM
Tim has hit on a pair of really valuable points here ! The Pa-N.J. border Headless Horrors crimes ( I better watch my butt ! Thats where I live !! ) "perps" not really worrying about being apprehended due to reasons mentioned AND the important fact laid out for all to consider,in that "civilized" ( in this instance,those from the Western Civilization vis-a-vis, non-W.C. folk)people DID and DO commit occultist crimes. My man Tim .....Ghost : ..... Maybe he read somewhere he could derive power from the killings themselves, or the post mortem retrieval of the organs.....Amen,my man !!!!

George
12-12-2003, 10:37 PM
All this dabbling or practicing of the "black arts" in these ritual killings, does not make any sense. What is the purpose and what is to be gained by these practices? What is supposed to happen?

George

How Brown
12-13-2003, 05:15 PM
Strangely enough,I am sitting no more than a half mile from where Princess Grace ( Kelly ) was born, right now. She was from East Falls, a neighborhood right next to mine in Wissahickon. She came from wealth and according to my Uncle who knew her, was a pretty pampered girl,along with having a nice pair of....films to her credit ( Rear Window and High Noon )......Having said that, it should come to no one's surprise anymore that the Bored Leisure Class,along with those who were weaned on Palo Mayombe, Santeria,etc, do have some things in common.......One great mistake made by several Ripper students/writers, is that since it "doesn't seem right" for a member of the Idle Rich or even Mrs. Joe Sixpack,to be caught up in Occultism,then "of course" the Ripper couldn't have.....

D1g1TaL Gh0sT
12-15-2003, 02:32 PM
Howard makes a good point. Many high-profile names have dabbled in, or been directly involved in, the occult. Marlyn Monroe, George Lucas, and Brian Warner, just to name a few. People may not broadcast their invlovement in it, but that's possibly due to the feelings invoked when it is mentioned. The stigma, that occultism is practiced strictly by the lower classes and teenage rebels, is misleading to say the least.

How Brown
12-15-2003, 05:31 PM
Thanks Ghost ! To take things a step further, many are aware of the silly, New Age-like, dabblings of celebrities,who when bored go "hang out" with devotees to unusual practices, not so much to join but for the "escape" from all their affluence and neuroses....Somewhere on the Internet, I read an account of two people who went to visit "Anton LaVey " ( real name, Levy ) and "check him out". One person came away convinced that La Vey simply started his whole Satanist movement as a sure fire way to get his hands on "the blonde shiksas( Gentile females) who are attracted to bizarre stuff..."-----TheHeavensGatedorkswho believed that some comet would take them to Pluto or wherever they were going, were ALL from the middle class and ALL intelligent people. Most were bored space cadets with too much money and no common sense and the others character-less followers. Not once have I ever heard anyone refer to these deceased idiots with these descriptions: "primitive" "savage" "backward"or "Third Worlders" We know why. A similar mentality is entrenched in Ripper studies. Its simply too much of a stretch for THEM to even consider occult inferences with the mutilations. Even if the murders were NOT ritualistic/occultist, to even contemplate the possibility that they COULD have been is too much. ----

Birgitte
01-27-2004, 10:21 AM
I've been toying with the idea the organs may have been needed for alchemy experiments, but an internet search into the history of alchemy showed that in the 1800s the attempts to make gold had long been abandoned. So there goes my theory LOL Too bad 'cause it wouldn't have been strange.

The occult theory is something that shouldn't be dismissed indeed. I'm going to purchase that book by Robert Bloch in due course and see what insights he has to offer in this matter.

Birgitte

How Brown
01-28-2004, 04:35 PM
Birgitte: Just because alchemical experimentation had been long abandoned by the 19th Century, does not mean that the attempts to garner gold from other elements totally ceased. Look at all the so-called Pagan/Wicca people today !!! These folks truly believe that they are witches. I ought to know....I had a date with one ! Bright,had a few bucks at the bank,nice kids,decent job,but.....a sincere belief that she was a Wiccan or witch. There are a lot of people who practice rites that ostensibly ceased a long time ago.....By the way,as a favor for buying that Wiccan lady an expensive Argentinian beef dinner( outtathisworld !),she turned me into a Hugh Grant lookalike.....no kidding !

Birgitte
01-29-2004, 03:22 AM
Birgitte: Just because alchemical experimentation had been long abandoned by the 19th Century, does not mean that the attempts to garner gold from other elements totally ceased.

Maybe they didn't, but I find the chances quite slim. The knowledge was already at atom-level at the end of the 1800s, so it would be a bit silly to try to make gold in that light now wouldn't it?

[QUOTE]Look at all the so-called Pagan/Wicca people today !!!

As far as I know they don't attempt to make gold nor practise human sacrifice. They also don't use human organs for potions but herbs. So what do I haver to look at?

These folks truly believe that they are witches. I ought to know....I had a date with one ! Bright,had a few bucks at the bank,nice kids,decent job,but.....a sincere belief that she was a Wiccan or witch.

The witch hunt is something else entirely. It was the Christian church who is to blame for that. The invented the devil and witches as worshippers of the devil in order to annilihate the old pagan religions. Sure, many people were superstitious in the Medival period. But I haven't read anything about people claiming witchcraft had anything to do with the murders. If there was still a firm belief in witchcraft in those days at least someone would have mentioned it in a newspaper? There was a lot of speculation going on at that time after all.

[QUOTE]There are a lot of people who practice rites that ostensibly ceased a long time ago.....

Sure, but pagan religions are nature religions and don't use human tissue for rites or potions. Nowadays Satanists are accused of sacrificing humans (especially babies) but that it most probably an urban legend as well (particularly in the US there is still much fear for everything not Christian which should not be dismissed).

To be honest, if you dated a pagan, you of all people should know that!

Birgitte

How Brown
01-29-2004, 06:02 AM
Birgitte.....I mentioned the pagans to point out that even though certain rites and practices are almost non-existent,as you correctly stated about the alchemists being a memory,there are remnants of these and other bizarre practices ( maybe the pagans ain't so bizarre...I like my make-over !) out there. But,yes you are correct....most of it is in the past. Hugh

Karen
06-14-2006, 12:56 AM
In "Epiphany Of The Whitechapel Murders", Jack does get down with his bad self with da voodoo!! The occult definitely features prominently in this case!

How Brown
09-03-2006, 11:29 AM
Now that I got your attention by mentioning sex.......;)

Here's an article found by Robert Linford
______________________________

sexuality: Sexual Rites in Europe . IOAN CULIANU and HANS HAKL.
Encyclopedia of Religion . Ed. Lindsay Jones. Vol. 12. 2nd ed. Detroit : Macmillan Reference USA, 2005. p8247-8254. 15 vols.

SEXUALITY: SEXUAL RITES IN EUROPE

Religiously motivated sexual rites date back to the early years of humanity's existence. Since the beginning of farming, the woman's sacral position shifted into the foreground and her secret fertility has been compared with that of the earth, as the planting of the field has been compared to the sexual act. Orgiastic rites aimed at increasing the earth's fertility, therefore, probably date to humanity's early period as well.
Already historically ascertained, however, are the great feasts in honor of Dionysos, who appears as Bakchos (Bacchus) in his orgiastic-mystic perspective. Their distinguishing characteristic was the frenzy, in which men and women—filled with God—stepped outside of themselves. According to Plutarch, the orgiastic feasts were celebrated at night on mountaintops, accompanied by torchlight and music. The wild flock of maenads (bacchantes), who in their frenzy ripped apart young animals and devoured the raw flesh, was accompanied by nymphs, satyrs, and sirens, who performed openly obscene acts. In the train of the Magna Mater cult, these rites entered Rome in the third century BCE. Followers of this cult not only performed sexually excessive acts, but also criminal deeds, which, according to Titus Livius, caused the Roman Senate to intervene in 186 BCE, and to cease the practice of the cult in the entire empire. This cult already exhibited some of the fundamentals of later sexual rites, up to (or including) modern sexual magic.
GNOSTICISM

These fundamentals can be seen even more clearly and are theoretically better formulated in the first centuries CE in Gnosticism. In various Gnostic systems, as in many ancient mythologies, the highest divine being is androgynous, just as Anthropos, the primal human, is. In order to return to this original wholeness and thereby escape death, which only occurred, according to the Gospel of Philip, after the separation of the two sexes, man and woman should sexually unite. In a much broader sense, according to these teachings, with this union other fundamental polarities of the world also become resolved in a coincidentia oppositorum. Even the Aeons, as primordial emanations of the supreme being, are said to have come together in sexual intercourse in order to achieve wholeness. For humans, the so-called bridal chamber rite ( thalamos, nymphon), which was mainly used by the Valentinians, was also a way to reestablish the original divine androgyny; a man as earthly representative of the redeemer (soter) and a woman as representative of wisdom ( sophia) performed the hierogamy (holy wedding), whereupon the present believers copied their actions.
According to an account of Epiphanius from the fourth century (which is not completely above doubt), the Barbelo Gnostics engaged in a prototype of a practice that was also performed in sexual-magical groups of the twentieth century: the ingestion by participants of the rite of the male seed as "body of Christ" and of menstrual blood as "blood of Christ." In this rite, these substances are not used for earthly conception, seen negatively from a Gnostic standpoint, but rather are ingested to achieve self-apotheosis. In Gnosticism as a whole there existed two different ways to achieve this: sexual freedom, but also ascetic tendencies, whose advocates thought to strengthen their spiritual powers by abstaining from sex. A strong proponent was Saturninus, or Satornil, who attempted through strict asceticism (also vegetarianism to a degree) to rescue from Satan's power or influence the part of light in the human being that consisted of light. In a later version, men's sexual proximity to women was permissible, but only in order to strengthen their spiritual power of resistance. This proximity could even extend as far as sexual intercourse, but was not allowed to reach orgasm. This is consistent with ideas that also occur in Indian Tantrism and are similar to the ones ascribed to the medieval Fedeli d'Amore.
CHRISTIANITY

In the first centuries of the Common Era, the repression of sexuality was a common theme within Christianity, contrary to its Jewish origins and the habits of its pagan neighbors. The Desert Fathers were usually converts with a stormy past whose temptations sometimes led them to the brothels in Alexandria. However, the desert standards of asceticism were very repressive, comparable, as far as sexuality was concerned, to the well-known rule of Mount Athos. The sight of a female, even a hen, was regarded as a great spiritual danger. Another example is Macarius, who as a young man was compelled to marry in order to please his parents. By feigning illness, he escaped the marital bed. When his wife died shortly after, he was very relieved and thanked God (see Leloir, 1982). The apostles Andrew and Thomas exhorted rich women to avoid intercourse with their husbands.
A particular importance for the restrictive aspect of sexuality in Christianity is accorded to the influential church father,[/URL]Page 8248 | Top of Article (http://www.jtrforums.com/) Augustine of Hippo (354–430). For him, sexual desire was not something "natural," thus being originally willed by God, but rather a punishment for Adam's original sin, which also had sexual connotations for him. Abstinence was thus seen as a path to spiritual freedom from sin.
Sexuality was sometimes even violently repressed by self-mutilation. Castration was practiced by the priests of Cybele, called Galli. It has been suggested that their practice of emasculation could have had an influence on the Christian rejection of sexuality, which is exemplified by Origen's act of self-castration.
FEDELI D'AMORE

When considering the Middle Ages, the so-called Fedeli d'Amore should be mentioned, even if their historical existence as a movement is not firmly established. However, the importance of the movement arises from the fact that Dante Alighieri (1265–1321) is supposed to have been the main proponent of this secret group, which allegedly lasted up to Boccaccio (1313?–1375) and Petrarch (1304–1374). The aim of the Fedeli d'Amore was to free men (and only men) from their earthly limitations and to lead them to divine wisdom through the all-transcending love for a woman (who need not necessarily be a real one, in which case the term woman was to be understood as an allegory for the female principle). Dante called this trasumanar, which means "going beyond a purely human existence." This practice could lead to erotic trials, whereby the man lay naked next to his "woman" for an entire night, but was not allowed to touch her ( asag). Through this "love" that transcended all other powers, he lost his "memory" (his usual human individuality), according to Dante, and reached a higher level of awareness. Thereafter, a so-called "exchange of hearts" is said to have occurred, which may suggest the attainment of a kind of androgynous state.
RENAISSANCE MAGIC

In the sixteenth century, in a cultural context in which the ancient theories concerning pneuma or spiritus were still popular (see Daniel Walker, 1958), the philosopher and magician Giordano Bruno (1548–1600) achieved a spectacular synthesis between the love theories of Marsilio Ficino (1433–1499), the art of memory (see Yates, 1972), and magic. The result, found in two manuscripts probably written in Wittenberg ( De vinculis in genere), is an erotic magic aimed at the total sexual self-control of the adept. The adept, acquainted with the practices of the art of memory, is instructed to learn to keep his fantasies under control. The images or phantasms produced are under certain circumstances transmitted to the individual or group that is to be magically "bound" (this is the meaning of the verb vincire, from which the noun vinculum, "bond," is derived). The images consciously produced by the adept are intended to correspond to the erotic expectations of the subjects to be "bound." The magician operates with phantasms that are sometimes sexual, yet he is at the same time completely immune to sexual stimuli. Bruno recommends that the adept never release sperm, for sperm retention represents the correct way to make "bonds" (vincula). But Bruno does not seem to have any particular exercise of semen retention in mind. His practices, which are meant to control sexuality through imagination, are similar in principle to Indian Tantric practices.
THE SKOPTSY

("the castrated"), a sect that originated in Russia in the eighteenth century as a dissenting group of the Russian Orthodox Church, resumed the practice of self-mutilation. They still existed in Russia up to 1930, and even later in eastern Romania, where they traditionally exerted a monopoly on coach driving. The Skoptsy are representatives of a view of the world in which the spirit is strongly opposed to the flesh; they believed that only through contempt and mortification of the flesh could the spirit be fully developed. Their efforts to suppress physical lust led in extreme cases to the excision of genitalia. It was said that, in one of their ceremonies, the left breast of a girl aged fifteen or sixteen was excised in a warm bath, after which the assembly took communion by eating the raw flesh that had been cut into fine pieces (Gehring, 1898, pp. 149–150). Even if this story was invented by their detractors, gruesome practices were common among the Skoptsy. Women sometimes had parts of their external genitalia and even one or both breasts cut off. For men, emasculation took place in several stages called seals: in the first, the testes were removed; in the second, the penis. In some cases also the pectoral muscles were cut into. And even mutilations on the shoulders, the back and the legs are attested. One could thus become an "angel with five (or six) wings."
THE KHLYSTY

The Skoptsy derived from an earlier sect whose members called themselves Christy, that is, "apt to become Christ themselves." They were contemptuously nicknamed the Khlysty (whips, or flagellants). Constantly persecuted by the authorities but secretly supported by the fervent nuns of the Ivanovskii cloisters in Moscow and by several merchants, the sect was active until 1762. The Khlysty were ascetic puritans who abstained from meat, alcohol, and tobacco; they fasted, prayed, and performed severe penances. They were said to have practiced infanticide and cannibalism in their secret meetings and to have performed a Black Mass on the naked body of a woman called bogoroditsa (bearer of God), whose child had been sacrificed.
The Khlysty were also said to have practiced a kind of lucerna extincta rite, in which men and women came together at night and, turning off the lights, had intercourse. They were sometimes alleged to have indulged in incestuous or homosexual intercourse. For the Khlysty, promiscuous intercourse took place after lengthy dances and after forty to fifty strong clashes between groups of men and women gathered in opposite corners of the room (Gehring, 1898, pp. 153–154). Even Grigorij Rasputin (1869–1916), who had great influence at the court of Tzar Nicolas II, propagated individual neo- khlystic guidelines. However, he most probably did not belong to such a sect himself.
LUCERNA EXTINCTA

The rite of lucerna extincta, as practiced by the Khlysty, has a long history. Livy attributed its originPage 8249 | Top of Article (http://www.jtrforums.com/) to the Dionysiac (or Bacchic) groups in Rome. Justin Martyr was the first one (in 150 CE) to accuse heretics of engaging in sexual orgies with the lights extinguished. On the other hand, according to the apologists Minucius Felix and Tertullian, enemies of the church attributed these rites to Christians in the second century CE. Clement of Alexandria mentions them in his description of the Gnostic Carpocratians. In 719 John of Odzun accused an Armenian Adoptionist sect of practicing lucerna extincta; in 1050 Michael Psellus accused the Bogomils in Thrace; and in 1090 Paul of Chartres said the heretics of Orléans performed it. In 1180 Walter Map stated that French heretics practiced this rite; Pope Gregory IX, in his bull Vox in Roma (1233), attributed it to heretics in Germany and to the Waldensians. Several fifteenth-century sources report that the Franciscan "Fraticelli" were involved in lucerna extincta practices.
There are also more recent cases of lucerna extincta rites, including those practiced by the followers of the Russian peasant Daniil Filippov (d. 1700). In 1645 Filippov convinced several people that God the Father had come to abide in Filippov's own "pure body." Thenceforth, Filippov called himself Sabaoth and gained several followers. Seven years later, he recruited the peasant Ivan Timofeevich as son and Christ. Suslov was said to have been miraculously born in 1616 (a purely fictitious date) from 100-year-old parents. The trinity was completed by a young girl who bore the titles of "bearer of God" and "daughter of God." Twelve apostles completed the picture. Suslov was repeatedly arrested and tortured, and, though his followers claimed that he was resurrected twice, it seems more probable that he was eventually released. He lived his last thirty years in Moscow and died in 1716 at the age of one hundred, a mythical age attributed to many founders of sects in Russia.
In addition to lucerna extincta, fornication and debauchery were also attributed to other heretics of the Middle Ages. The followers of Tanchelm of Antwerp (d. 1115), for instance, were said to have organized revels in which young girls were deflowered in the presence of their mothers; wives and children were offered to Tanchelm's lust (see Russell, 1965, p. 65).
In Europe's Inner Demons (1975), Norman R. C. Cohn analyzes the histories of groups that were said to engage in esoteric sexual practices. In dealing with the period from 186 BCE to the end of the fifteenth century, Cohn found that in all allegations of promiscuous intercourse there was a suspicious pattern of uniformity. Promiscuity was frequently associated with more gruesome practices, the most common of which was infanticide. He noted that testimonies of lucerna extincta and other practices are directed against groups that seem to form a direct threat to the state or the church and are meant to discredit these groups. These testimonies present a regular pattern, whether they describe Bacchanalia in 186 BCE or witch-hunts in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries; they belong to a stereotype of detraction used by several power groups against their opponents. Cohn admits that the idea of sexual promiscuity is consistent with the dualistic view of the world held by groups like the Gnostics, Manichaeans, Paulicians, Bogomils, and Cathari. But the first four groups were ascetic, and even the sexual freedom of the Cathari "believers" (in contrast to the asceticism of the "perfect") found its expression in individual deeds, not in collective rites.
WITCHES' SABBATH

Reports of the so-called witches' Sabbath have always been a central theme in the history of sexual rites. What these rites really embody has been answered in different ways by research. As Mircea Eliade wrote, today it is difficult, almost impossible, to determine what was real and what was imaginary when it comes to the witches' confessions. The persecution of witches began in the middle of the fifteenth century, reached its climax in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, and subsided around the middle of the eighteenth century. In total, there are said to have been around sixty thousand male and female victims of these witch-hunts; female victims are more numerous, despite extensive regional differences. As Brian Levack states in his book The Witch-Hunt in Early Modern Europe (1987), the massive witch-hunt came about because belief in the reality of the witches' Sabbath was widespread. Such a Sabbath was said to involve several witches, who performed blasphemous, obscene rites, which included worship of the devil and which ended in sexual orgies. Therefore, when one witch was condemned, others had to be sought as accomplices.
The English Egyptologist Margaret Murray attempted to prove in The Witch-Cult in Western Europe (1921) that the descriptions of the witches' Sabbath given by the witches indicated that they were not torture-induced phantasms, nor drug-induced hallucinatory experiences. The witches' Sabbath was more likely the relic of a pre-Christian peasant fertility cult, which continued to exist into modern times, even supplying the roots of the modern witch movement (Wicca) of the twentieth century. This theory, however, no longer has many followers in scientific circles. On the contrary, the sexual researcher R. E. L. Masters, in his book Eros und Evil (1962), argues that the confessions, which contained every imaginable type of sexual debauchery, can be traced to the witch-hunters' morbid erotic fantasies, as well as the victims' hysteria and drug dependency.
Eliade, on the other hand, in Occultism, Witchcraft, and Cultural Fashions (1976), emphasizes that the witches' radical protest against the reigning societal and religious circumstances were expressed through the witches' Sabbath. One did not become a witch in order to indulge one's sexual desires, but rather in the hope that these rituals would lead to redemption from the difficulties of everyday life and to bliss as it was once allegedly experienced by humankind in its primeval state in "paradise." Eliade considered it proven that the witches' Sabbath could not have been about sexual desires, because witches often described coitus with the devil as being extraordinarily painful, and this voluntary suffering indicated that the Sabbath was a severe initiation rite.
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Carlo Ginzburg in Ecstasies: Deciphering the Witch's Sabbath (1989/1992) addresses the witches' sabbath in a particularly comprehensive and well-documented manner. Ginzburg's earlier The Night Battles (1966/1985), a ground-breaking work, had attempted to uncover a core of truth in Margaret Murray's unverifiable statements. With the use of court files, he was able to prove the existence of a pagan agrarian cult called benandanti among farmers living in northern Italy in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. Ginzburg also investigates the true background of the witches' Sabbath. In doing so, he takes the witches' statements during their trials very seriously and does not consider them to be fantasies or torture-induced confessions, in contrast to many authors of mainly feminist bent, who directed their attention almost exclusively to the cruel persecution of women by men. Nevertheless, Ginzburg does not find proof that such events actually took place. Instead, he suspects a more than 1000-year-old residuum of Euro-Asiatic myths and rituals related to shamanism to be the basis of the witches' Sabbath.
In Demon Lovers (2002), Walter Stephens delivers a precise investigation, based on early texts on the persecution of witches between 1430 and 1530, describing sexual intercourse between hellish demons and earthly women. The great interest that the inquisitors, judges, and experts at that time had in this question is not considered by Stephens to be based on hostility towards women or on misguided erotic desires on the part of the men. He is convinced, rather, that these men were concerned with serious metaphysical problems. If actual sexual intercourse between supernatural demons and terrestrial women could be proven, then the existence of demons and their interaction with our world would be proven as well. And if there were demons, then there existed also an order beyond our world, and thus a God. In this way, doubts in God, which mainly arose from Aristotle's writings, could be put to rest.
BLACK MASS

By the end of the seventeenth century, fears of witchcraft were replaced by a more skeptical attitude. Obscene rituals and satanic cults were only being celebrated in very small circles, in which individual moments were more central, as Gerhard Zacharias writes in Satanskult und Schwarze Messe (1970, p. 106). In 1682 King Louis XIV of France transferred all responsibility for prosecuting witchcraft from ecclesiastical to secular tribunals, effectively ending the witch-hunts in France. Witches were to be prosecuted only if they had committed crimes against civil law. During such legal proceedings by a special police commission against a group of people accused of poisonings, it was discovered that Black Masses being held in Paris were accompanied by erotic practices and infanticide, and Louis XIV's mistress, the Marquise de Montespan, was involved in the affair. Police reports of the time claim that her naked body served as an altar upon which the Black Mass was performed. Intercourse with the celebrating priest usually followed the profanation of the wafer. The performers of the mass were priests; infant sacrifices seem actually to have been performed.
In the seventeenth century, sexual repression in French nunneries in some cases manifested itself in the form of a sexual frenzy which seized the nuns and spread under the guise of a demonic and diabolic possession inside the convent but also to other nunneries. Several priests, including Louis Gaufridy, Urbain Grandier, and Jean-Baptiste Girard, are connected to these cases. The old Gnostic idea that sin could only be conquered by sin was central to these cases, and the nuns became involved in orgies and peculiar sexual behavior. The most famous cases involved Madelaine de Demandolx de la Palud ( Aix-en-Provence, 1611), Jeanne des Anges (Loudun, 1633), Magdelaine Bavent (Louviers, c. 1644), and Catherine Cadière (Aix-en-Provence, 1731). One story of diabolic possession involved Elizabeth de Ranfaing (Nancy, 1618–1625), an attractive woman who subjected herself to self-mortification in an attempt to make herself ugly. In 1617 she succumbed to attacks of uninhibited sexual frenzy that lasted until 1625. After the male doctor who was accused of causing this sexual frenzy was executed, de Ranfaing founded a spurious monastic order noted for its emphasis on iron discipline and sexual repression. This order was, however, condemned by the Holy Office in 1644 and Pope Innocence X in 1649.
FRANKISTS

Sexual rituals were also performed under the leadership of the qabbalist Jakob Leibowicz (1726–1791), known as Frank (Davidowicz, 1998, pp. 343, 354-356). Frank hoped that these rituals would enable him to reach the hidden harmonizing Sefira Daat of the qabbalistic tree of life on the terrestrial plane. By performing a "holy wedding," the cosmic harmony would be reestablished. It is not clear how exactly the rituals were performed or how often (probably seldom). At any rate, the sexual acts were performed according to precise directives from Frank, with Frank's followers as witnesses. It is also reported that Frank would suck on women's breasts for "nourishment." Davidowicz advises against judging the Frankists as simple heretics, but rather sees a meaningful link to the latter Qabbala in their teachings. It would be just as misleading to label the Frankists a spin-off of the Shabbateans. In the case of their founder, Shabbetai Tsevi (1626–1676), the practice of sexual rituals is uncertain, even if erotic mysticism and sexual permissiveness were indisputably an aspect of this group after Tsevi's conversion to Islam (Scholem, 1973, pp. 669, 880). In later Shabbatean circles, this sexual permissiveness is much more strongly pronounced.
MAGIA SEXUALIS

In the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, sexual rites became central to the ceremonies of erotic "satanic" clubs. Members of these clubs were usually wealthy young men, such as the English dandy Francis Dashwood of the so-called Knights of Saint Francis of Wycombe, more commonly called the Hell-fire Club. In 1753 Dashwood formed his own sexual brotherhood in Medmenham Abbey, adopting the motto "Fais ce que tu veux" ("Do What Thou Page 8251 | Top of Article (http://www.jtrforums.com/) Wilt") from the Thelema Abbey of François Rabelais. In 1763 the English public was shocked to learn that even its prime minister, its chancellor of exchequer, and other cabinet ministers had been masquerading as "monks" and celebrating sexual rites with "nuns."
The founder of modern sexual magic is undoubtedly Pascal Beverly Randolph (1825–1875), an African American writer who rose from poverty to become a trance medium and occultist serving the very high aristocratic, literary, scientific, and occult circles in America, Europe, Asia, and Africa. Randolph became acquainted with the founder of the Theosophical Society, H. P. Blavatsky, though a bitter hostility later arose between the two due to occult rivalry. In his travels Randolph collected vast knowledge of magical mirrors, narcotics, and sexuality as an access to occult knowledge. Around 1870 he founded the Brotherhood of Eulis, through which he published manuscripts on sexual magic. Randolph's teaching reached Europe through the English bookseller Robert H. Fryar, who marketed Randolph's manuscripts in Great Britain. After Randolph's death, the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor emerged from among Fryar's friends. The brotherhood expanded Randolph's teachings under the leadership of Max Théon (the pseudonym of Louis Maximilian Bimstein, Binstein, or Beinstein; 1848?–1927), Peter Davidson (1837–1915), and Thomas Henry Dalton (1855?–1895?), better known by the name of Thomas H. Burgoyne.
Sexuality stood at the center of the entire metaphysical system and spiritual experience of the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor. Male-female polarity was seen as the original principle of the universe and the primary driving force for evolution. Consequently, the sexual union of a man and woman became a practical path to unity, the divine self, and a state equal to that of an angel. The "vital secretions" or "seminal fluids" that are created by sexual intercourse were seen as fundamental elements for the construction of a "spiritual body." Sexuality was the only thing that could bring the neophytes into contact with higher spiritual spheres and powers of a heavenly hierarchy.
Another important factor for the emergence of modern sexual magic was the fact that Tantric teachings became known in the West. The Victorian pornographic writer and amateur mythologist Edward Sellon (1817/8–1866) is said to have played a key roll with his Annotations on the Sacred Writings of the Hindus (1865), which interpreted Tantrism in a one-sided way as purely erotic magical teachings.
Twentieth-century sexual magic

The influence of the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor on all subsequent occult groups in Europe and the United States cannot be overestimated; sexual magic became the most intimate central mystery of many of these groups. It is, however, not entirely clear how these ideas were transferred to them. The Hermetic Brotherhood of Light, which was founded in Chicago or Boston in 1895, seems to have played a major role. Seemingly it was from this brotherhood that the irregular German Mason Theodor Reuss (1855–1923) adopted the secret. Reuss in turn initiated the best-known "black magician" of the twentieth century, Aleister Crowley (1875–1947). Reuss was an opera singer and journalist, who founded an entire series of irregular lodges, including the Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO), which he established between 1906 and 1912. Its sexual teachings, which had undergone much further development since Randolph, found expression especially in its seventh, eighth, and ninth degrees, based, respectively, on autoerotic, heterosexual, and homosexual practices. The Austrian chemist Carl Kellner (1850–1905) was an important predecessor to Reuss.
Crowley's OTO rites differed from Reuss's, from which they had emerged. Crowley, whose well-known motto "Do What Thou Wilt" can be traced back to "Fais ce que tu veux" of Rabelais's Thelema Abbey, but which is primarily directed towards discovering the "true will" of one's own personality, expanded his OTO hierarchic structure to twelve degrees. The eighth degree mainly consisted of masturbating on the symbol or sigill of a spirit or demon that was to be called forth. The ninth degree consisted of heterosexual intercourse in which the sexual secretions were consumed or used for evoking a spirit. The eleventh degree was fundamentally homosexual, whereby bleeding caused by anal intercourse was to call up the spirits, whereas the sperm kept them alive.
The basic premise in this form of sexual magic was the fixation of the spirit and will during orgasm solely on some spiritual or material goal, rather than on emotional climax. In this way the spiritual and astral world would be so strongly influenced that this goal would become material reality. Crowley strived for money and success with women through these activities, but he also sought the path to the "conversation with his Holy Guardian Angel," which must be seen as a type of divine self.
The OTO, which still maintains branches in numerous countries, inspired a series of new movements, which also saw themselves as obliged to perform sexual magic in the most varied forms. Examples include the Great Brotherhood of God and the OTOA (A stands for "Antiqua") under Michael Paul Bertiaux, as well as the Typhonian OTO under Kenneth Grant. One might also include the well-known Californian Church of Satan led by Anton LaVey, among whose members was the actress Jane Mansfield, although their beliefs were less esoteric and more directed towards material and social success. The sexual magic of Crowley's OTO also had a major influence on the modern witch movement (Wicca), a fact which can be attributed to Gerald Gardner (1884–1964). Gardner, who met Crowley before his death, founded one of the first modern English covens and propagated the ideas of Margaret Murray, according to which modern witchcraft relates back to an ancient pagan folk religion.
The Russian "Priestess of Satan," Maria de Naglowska (1883–1936), settled in Paris after having spent time in Egypt, Italy, and Switzerland. In Paris, she probably summarized (http://www.jtrforums.com/)Page 8252 | Top of Article (http://find.galegroup.com/ips/retrieve.do?subjectParam=Locale%2528en%252C%252C%2 529%253AFQE%253D%2528su%252CNone%252C14%2529hermet ic%2Blodge%2524&contentSet=EBKS&sort=DateDescend&tabID=T001&sgCurrentPosition=0&subjectAction=DISPLAY_SUBJECTS&prodId=IPS&searchId=R1&currentPosition=1&userGroupName=webdemo&resultListType=RESULT_LIST&sgHitCountType=None&qrySerId=Locale%28en%2C%2C%29%3AFQE%3D%28K0%2CNone %2C14%29hermetic+lodge%24&inPS=true&searchType=BasicSearchForm&displaySubject=&docId=CX3424502806&docType=EBKS&contentSet=EBKS#toptop) and translated into French several of Randolph's sexual magic manuscripts and books, and published them in his name with the title Magia Sexualis. Naglowska also celebrated so-called satanic masses and private séances in Paris; these were actually only preliminaries for messes d'or (golden masses) in which seven couples were simultaneously to engage in public sexual intercourse. Self-strangulations in order to enhance the sexual stimulus were practiced in high initiations of men. In her teachings, De Naglowska pleaded for a future matriarchal culture.
In the German-speaking world, the Fraternitas Saturni emerged in 1928 in Berlin from an offshoot of the Panosophic Lodge of Heinrich Tränker (1880–1956), who also led the German branch of Crowley's OTO for a time. The leader of the Fraternitas Saturni was Eugen Grosche (Gregor A. Gregorius 1888–1964). Gregorius, who composed a substantial portion of the lodge's extensive magical material, was mainly interested in creating astral entities with the help of the male and female sexual secretions, which would then be available as spiritual aides when performing other magical operations. The astrological positions of the stars were important for this group—the stars even determined individual coital positions when performing the rites. The famous eighteenth degree of the fraternity's hierarchy, the so-called Gradus Pentalphae, was purely sexual-magical, but most likely it was seldom performed.
Rituals of sexual magic may have also been practiced around 1928 by the Viennese lodge Hekate under the Austrian Orientalist Franz Sättler (1884–c. 1942; fraternal name Dr. Musallam), and by their Berlin branch. Wilhelm Quintscher (1893–1945), who was in contact with Sättler, was also involved with sexual magic in his Orden Mentalischer Bauherren (roughly translates as "Order of Mental Architects"). The Belgian Kymris lodge, which was founded in the 1920s under the Chevalier Clément de Saint-Marcq, was engaged in the ingestion of sexual secretions for purposes of magical rejuvenation. This group considered the devouring of sexual secretions as the actual secret meaning of the Christian last supper.
Italy, too, has witnessed (and is still witnessing) orders that are concerned with sexual magic. The best-known movement is the Fratellanza Terapeutica e Magica di Myriam, which stood under the leadership of Giuliano Kremmerz (the pseudonym of Ciro Formisano, 1861–1930) and based its teachings on an ancient Italic school, to which Count Cagliostro is said to have belonged. The Myriam was connected to a certain Ordine Osirideo Egizio, which allegedly practiced the most secret part of the sexual-magical teachings. However it is not completely clear to what extent the order's manuscripts, first publicly circulated in 1985, contain falsifications. The purpose of the sexual-magical operations described in the manuscripts was to separate a person's solar "spirit" from his physical, astral, and mental bodies in order to autonomize this spirit and to construct around it a body of glory totally independent from earthly constraints, which was supposed to have the ability to survive even physical death. Following exact astrological calculations and long periods of fasting, male and female sexual secretions had to be ingested in a particular order. These procedures were known as Arcana Arcanorum, and they formed a type of "internal alchemy," similar to what has been known in India and China for centuries.
Kremmerz' beliefs were also known to the Italian cultural philosopher, Dadaist, and esotericist Julius Evola (1898–1974), who led the magical Group of Ur from 1927 to 1929. This group also espoused teachings from sexual magic. For Evola, sexuality was the only remaining direct path to transcendence for modern humans. According to the order's documents, followers strove to free the spirit from terrestrial constraints by building a body of glory as an instrument for overcoming physical death. This was to happen by conquering the general elementary "principle of life," which reigns over the earthly world and which was said to hide behind the sexual drive. This principle of life, whose flipside is death, was goaded to increasing degrees through sexual encounters, until it would present itself "uncloaked" in a paroxysm. In that moment this spiritual principle had to be permanently overcome in a sudden and dangerous tour de force. Among the practitioners of the Group of Ur (in contrast to Crowley, the OTO, and Kremmerz), the male sexual magician had to resist orgasm at all costs. If he gave in to the elementary powers hidden behind the whipped-up sexuality, they would overwhelm him and he would be driven to death or madness. This path to immortality was, however, only open to men, because women were considered to be the earthly representatives of the previously mentioned principle of life. Evola, who was friends with the reputed Orientalist Giuseppe Tucci, provided probably the most interesting presentation of the connections between religion, esotericism, and sexuality in his book Metaphysics of Sex (1958), even if it is marked by his so-called traditional idiosyncrasies.
SUMMARY

What constitutes the power of religiously motivated sexual rituals, which have been in existence since the dawn of humanity? George Bataille (1897–1962) sees excessive eroticism and orgies as a transgression of borders that hit human individuality in its most intimate core. Bataille compares this crossing with death, because the same abyss into transcendence opens up in both cases. Individuality ceases to exist and something deeper comes into being: a mysterium tremendum, that which is "holy" in the sense of Rudolf Otto.
For Michel Maffesoli, the orgy and the Dionysic festival satisfy the desire to be together, only on a much larger scale, and they form thereby a necessary counterpart to the ossified rules of everyday life. The arising orgiastic life-emotion becomes then a fundamental structure for society. Maffesoli points out that the orgiastic element is always attributed to darkness, chaos, and night, and thereby it balances out regular daily activities. The divinely social element already represented by community in itself is, according to Maffesoli, celebrated by the chaos of the orgiastic bodies embracing Page 8253 | Top of Article (http://www.jtrforums.com/) each other in darkness. In the course of this process, one's own body is expanded into a collective body and is thus strengthened.
In conclusion, one must ask whether the term rite is even appropriate in this context. Rite stems from the Latin term ritus, which means "legitimate, regular action." Ritus in turn is connected with the Sanskrit rta, which means "cosmic order" or "truth." Is it not the case that the aim of all the sexual rites discussed in this entry is to question and thwart precisely this general cosmic order and legitimate action?
SEE ALSO

Castration (http://find.galegroup.com/ips/retrieve.do?contentSet=EBKS&qrySerId=Locale%28en%2C%2C%29%3AFQE%3D%28su%2CNone %2C14%29hermetic+lodge%24&inPS=true&searchType=BasicSearchForm&tabID=T001&prodId=IPS&searchId=R1&userGroupName=webdemo&relatedDocId=3424500517); Clitoridectomy (http://find.galegroup.com/ips/retrieve.do?contentSet=EBKS&qrySerId=Locale%28en%2C%2C%29%3AFQE%3D%28su%2CNone %2C14%29hermetic+lodge%24&inPS=true&searchType=BasicSearchForm&tabID=T001&prodId=IPS&searchId=R1&userGroupName=webdemo&relatedDocId=3424500606).
BIBLIOGRAPHY

General and easily readable surveys on sexuality and religion include Denis de Rougemont, L'amour et l'occident (Paris, 1939; rev. ed., 1972), translated by Montgomery Belgion as Love in the Western World (New York, 1956; rev. ed., Princeton, 1983), a book that has proven to be very influential; H. Cutner, A Short History of Sex Worship (London, 1940), which portrays the history of the phallus cult; Nicolas James Perella, The Kiss Sacred and Profane: An Interpretative History of Kiss Symbolism and Related Religio-Erotic Themes (Berkeley, 1969), the contents of which go far beyond the title; the richly illustrated book by Clifford Bishop, Sex and Spirit (London, 1996); and Gerhard J. Bellinger, Im Himmel wie auf Erden: Sexualität in den Religionen der Welt (Munich, 1993).
Information about the sexual theories and practices among the Gnostics is mainly to be attributed to the church fathers Hippolytus, Ireneaus, and Epiphanius, as well as to writings from Nag Hammadi. As secondary literature see Mircea Eliade, Occultism, Witchcraft, and Cultural Fashions: Essays in Comparative Religions (Chicago and London, 1976), pp. 93–119; see pages 85–88 for an important analysis of the lucerna extincta. See also Benjamin Walker, Gnosticism: Its History and Influence (Wellingborough, U.K., 1983), pp. 107–132 and 147–158; Giovanni Casadio, Vie gnostiche all'immortalità: (Brescia, Italy, 1997), pp. 97–117, from which readings were held at the Eranos conference in 1990 in Ascona; Leonhard Fendt, Gnostische Mysterien (Munich, 1922); See also L. Leloir. "Infiltrations dualistes chez les Pères du désert," in Gnosticisme et monde hellénistique, edited by Julian Ries (Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium, 1982), pp. 326–336, and Ioan Petru Culianu, Expériences de l'extase (Paris, 1984). For the development of sexual teachings in Christianity in the first centuries, Elaine Pagel's Adam, Eve, and the Serpent (New York, 1988) is recommended.
There are only a few references dealing with the Fedeli d'Amore in religious scientific literature, including Elemire Zolla, L'amante invisible (Venice, 1986), and Mircea Eliade, Birth and Rebirth: The Religious Meanings of Initiation in Human Culture (Chicago, 1958). Eliade even attributed a highly probable "initiatic" structure to this movement. See also Henry Corbin's translation of Ruzbehan, Le jasmin des fideles d'amour (Lagrasse, France, 1991), and H. T. Hakl's essay "Die Getreuen der Liebe" in Gnostika (January 1998): 38–43, (July 1998): 43–50, and (October 1998): 41–50. The entire realm of courtly love is explored in Roger Boase, Origin and Meaning of Courtly Love (Manchester, U.K., 1977). With respect to literary historical studies, see the works by Luigi Valli, in particular his Il linguaggio segreto di Dante e dei "fedeli d'amore," (Rome, 1928), and Alfonso Ricolfi, Studi sui fedeli d'amore (Foggia, Italy, 1983). Sexual self-control in Renaissance magic is described in Ioan P. Coulianu, Eros and Magic in the Renaissance (Chicago, 1987). For the Renaissance see also: Daniel P. Walker, Spiritual and Demonic Magic from Ficino to Campanela (London, 1958); Frances A. Yates, The Art of Memory (Chicago, 1972);
Promiscuous ritual intercourse is documented in Norman Cohn, The Pursuit of the Millennium: Revolutionary Millenarians and Mystical Anarchists of the Middle Ages, 3d ed. (New York, 1970), and in Jeffrey Burton Russell, Dissent and Reform in the Early Middle Ages (Berkeley, 1965; reprint, 1982). Gustave Welter provides a useful study of practices among Russian sects in Histoire des sectes chrétiennes, des origines à nos jours (Paris, 1950). See also J. Gehring, Die Sekten der russis-chen Kirche (Leipzig, Germany, 1898), as well as the very skeptical Karl Konrad Grass, Die russischen Sekten, Vol. 1, Die Gottesleute oder Chlüsten (Leipzig, Germany, 1907; reprint, 1966), and Nikolai Volkov, La secte russe des castrats (Paris, 1995). Rasputin is the topic of Alexander de Jonge's book The Life and Times of Grigorii Rasputin (New York, 1982).
For the history of the Black Mass see H. T. F. Rhodes, The Satanic Mass (London, 1954), which is popular but outdated in some areas by newer more detailed studies. Gerhard Zacharias's Satanskult und Schwarze Messen (Wiesbaden, Germany, 1970) reproduces numerous original texts, and also contains original material on the witches' Sabbath and the French possession cases. Satanic rites are the subject of Montague Summers's best known book, Witchcraft and Black Magic (London, 1946; reprint, New York, 2000).
The best book on the famous possession cases of the seventeenth century is Robert Mandrou, Magistrats et sorciers en France au dixseptième siècle (Paris, 1968); short surveys are provided by Jacques Finné in Érotisme et sorcellerie (Verviers, Belgium, 1972). For information on qabbalistic sexual rites, see Klaus Samuel Davidowicz, Jakob Frank, der Messias aus dem Ghetto (Frankfurt am Main, 1998), and Gershom Scholem, Sabbatai Sevi: The Mystical Messiah, 1626–1676 (Princeton, 1973). Sir Francis Dashwood and the Hell-fire Club are dealt with in Donald McCormick, The Hell-Fire Club: The Story of the Amorous Knights of Wycombe (London, 1958).
On sexual magic, see Joscelyn Godwin, Christian Chanel, and John P. Deveney, The Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor: Initiatic and Historical Documents of an Order of Practical Occultism (York Beach, Me., 1995), which summarizes all known material from this movement and offers an excellent introduction. On the OTO, see Peter R. König, Das O.T.O. Phänomen (Munich, 1994), which was partly translated into English and is available online at http://www.cyberlink.ch/~koenig/ (http://find.galegroup.com/ips/RedirectAction.do?URL=http://www.cyberlink.ch/~koenig/). See also O.T.O. Rituals and Sex Magick by Theodor Reuss and Aleister Crowley, edited by A. R. Naylor (London, 1999). The most comprehensive book on Aleister Crowley is John Symonds, The Beast 666: The Life of Aleister Crowley (London, 1997). There is little material available about Maria de Naglowska, the most extensive being the brochures by her pupil Marc Pluquet: La Sophiale (Paris, 1993).
For English-language material on the Fraternitas Saturni, see S. Edred Flowers, Fire and Ice: Magical Teachings of Germany'sPage 8254 | [URL="http://find.galegroup.com/ips/retrieve.do?subjectParam=Locale%2528en%252C%252C%2 529%253AFQE%253D%2528su%252CNone%252C14%2529hermet ic%2Blodge%2524&contentSet=EBKS&sort=DateDescend&tabID=T001&sgCurrentPosition=0&subjectAction=DISPLAY_SUBJECTS&prodId=IPS&searchId=R1&currentPosition=1&userGroupName=webdemo&resultListType=RESULT_LIST&sgHitCountType=None&qrySerId=Locale%28en%2C%2C%29%3AFQE%3D%28K0%2CNone %2C14%29hermetic+lodge%24&inPS=true&searchType=BasicSearchForm&displaySubject=&docId=CX3424502806&docType=EBKS&contentSet=EBKS#toptop"]Top of Article (http://www.jtrforums.com/) Greatest Secret Occult Order (Saint Paul, Minn., 1990), a short survey work. One can receive insight into the rituals from Documenta et Ritualia Fraternitatis Saturni, edited by Adolf Hemberger (Giessen, Germany, 1975–1977). This seventeen-volume work has only been hectographed and has never been offered for sale. On sexual magic in Myriam and the Ordine Osirideo Egizio, see Giuliano Kremmerz, Corpus philosophorum totius magiae (Milan, Italy, 1987).
A broad overview of sexuality in esotericism, including Daoist, Tantric, and magical practices, is presented from a traditionalist viewpoint by Julius Evola in his Metaphysics of Sex (New York, 1983). The manuscripts of the Group of Ur are presented in Introduzione alla magia (Rome, 1987) in three volumes, of which the first has been translated into English as Introduction to Magic: Rituals and Practical Techniques for the Magus, edited by Julius Evola and the Ur Group ( Rochester, Vt., 2000). See also George Bataille, Erotism: Death and Sensuality (San Francisco, 1991); and Michel Maffesoli, The Shadow of Dionysus: A Contribution to the Sociology of Orgy (Albany, N.Y., 1993).
IOAN PETRU CULIANU (1987)
HANS THOMAS HAKL (2005)
Translated from German by Marvin C. Sterling

Wickerman
09-03-2006, 08:01 PM
What concerns me about "Jack the Black Magician" is that it could or even is being viewed in the same light as the Royal Conspiracy nonesense.
Is there any short list of salient points of evidence, like in bullit form, that can be used to demonstrate the argument?

How Brown
09-03-2006, 08:46 PM
Is there any short list of salient points of evidence, like in bullit form, that can be used to demonstrate the argument?---WickerMan

Well Wick old buddy...

....other than hearsay and some newspaper articles ( Earl of Crawford,Diosy,Donston).....the conclusions of Bernard O'Donnell in his 1958 manuscript, This Man Was Jack The Ripper.....the Melvin Harris book, The True Face of JTR......and Ivor Edwards' book, JTR-Black Magic Rituals........none.

There could be elements within the Case that could be of a ritual nature. For a while,I was certain that there were. But it doesn't matter what I think.

Organ removal for making candles ( not enough fat in the organs taken to do something like that )....position of bodies at crime sites ( just as likely an unconnected event )....marks on the face ( maybe...ahem....you might know someone with an alternative idea to this being ritualistic ).....number of victims to coincide with "magic" number 5 in black magic ( no proof that 5,6 or 7 victims were by the Ripper's hand or even less...)....all tenuous and unprovable.

Maybe the layout of the bodies at those distances apart could be considered having a link to ritualism or the occult,Wick....likewise the claim made by Cremers about the bloody cravats might have to do with something along the lines of ritualism. I don't know anymore to be honest. I don't even believe much in a "ritual angle" as I used to.

For one theory to have any credibility whatsoever,it would be necessary for Stephenson to have known Mary Kelly before killing Nichols and knowing she would be there on November 9th.

Not only impossible considering Kelly's lifestyle,but why seek out someone in the general vicinity of Miller's Court in the first place and then proceed with Bucks Row....Hanbury Street...Berner...etc..????

Do you have a list Wick?

What do you think about the fact that there is no evidence of Stephenson practicing black magic at any time from the period following his imaginary adventures in The Cameroons to his death....with the exception of the little triangles he drew in the air for Cremers?

See what you started Wick?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Debbie D
09-04-2006, 12:08 AM
[I]
What do you think about the fact that there is no evidence of Stephenson practicing black magic at any time from the period following his imaginary adventures in The Cameroons to his death....with the exception of the little triangles he drew in the air for Cremers?
See what you started Wick?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yikes! Next he will be making those annoying little finger quotations around all his statements. :p

Though I really enjoyed the Black Magic Rituals book, and although it did make me look at some aspects differently, I don't think JtR was a "black magic" worshipper/practicer. Any rituals he may have had/done I strongly believe were personal in nature and had nothing to do with an occult or any master plan.:judge:

Sometimes I wonder if we put too much effort into rituals, suspects, complex theories, conspiracies and what if's (we can't see the forest for the trees?). I think it was so much simpler than everyone thinks,,, and if Jack could see us now he is certainly laughing it up with all the fuss we manage to stir. Ha ha.:rolleyes:

How Brown
09-04-2006, 12:11 AM
Debbie:

I agree with you. The murders may have been committed for intrinsic reasons beyond what we know. In fact,they might have been rituals in the mind of whomever the Ripper was.

But the claims that the crimes were borne out of a definable ritual/occult practice are what I was referring to. Nothing indicates that.

How

Wickerman
09-04-2006, 08:51 AM
Hi Howie.
Thanks for that summary. No I don't have a list myself but seeing as how Ivor was the last one to publish anything from this perspective I wondered if a solid argument had developed.
I do have Harris's 'Bloody Truth' & 'True Face' but neither book gets down to the important issues of connecting specifics of the case to the theory.
What has always intrigued me is that Melvin Harris made a concerted effort and I think presented an impressive case in demonstrating that the 'Diary' fraud was precisely that. Yet, as I remarked elsewhere, he didn't put as much effort into his own D'Onston theory.
Harris didn't seem to look at his own creation with the same critical eye that he had with the theories of others.

I'll be picking up a copy of Ivor's book in the next week or so but for me the whole theory has no more credibility than any other conspiracy.
As you say, if Stephenson had any pretentions for the Black Arts in the period you mention there should be some indications somewhere.

Debbie is right when she says:
"I think it was so much simpler than everyone thinks,,,"
I'll raise a toast to that, I'm all for simplicity.

How Brown
09-04-2006, 09:36 AM
Yet, as I remarked elsewhere, he didn't put as much effort into
his own D'Onston theory.
Harris didn't seem to look at his own creation with the same critical eye that
he had with the theories of others.

Ah a man after me own heart....I've been hip to that for a while now meself.

One of the excuses or reasons given for this lack of a followup or effort,Wick,has been the disadvantage of not having the Internet on behalf of the older Ripperologists or the network that exists today. This may be true in some cases. Harris was a very critical observer in the Ripper world and in the milieu of hoaxbusting.

However,it took many years for the O'Donnell to be put together and Bernard O'Donnell was definitely more disadvantaged than subsequent theorists.

Not to deviate from the intention of the thread Wick.....but recently I've been more interested in how and why the edifice on which Stephenson's candidacy was built lasted so long.

Debbie D
09-04-2006, 11:46 AM
But the claims that the crimes were borne out of a definable ritual/occult practice are what I was referring to. Nothing indicates that.

How


Bingo! I totally agree How...:thumbsupbud:

How Brown
09-04-2006, 12:56 PM
Thanks Deb !

For one thing,we can't be sure if the layout ( which according to some was a profaned cross....others see a vesica pisces...others see an arrow ) means anything without a definite number of victims.

The probable idiosyncracy of Stephenson making little triangles in the air ( hard to imagine Cremers inventing some sort of episode like this....que bono ?) is one of the elements of ritual that caused O'Donnell to consider him aside from the Collins/Cremers statements. In addition,the numbers game ( 5, 9, 40, etc...) found in other black magic books were undoubtedly instrumental in formulating his ideas about RDS.

Hey,who knows? Maybe The Earl of Crawford was our boy in the long run.....anyone ever check into his alibi and wherabouts ?:rolleyes:

Magpie
09-04-2006, 01:41 PM
The probable idiosyncracy of Stephenson making little triangles in the air ( hard to imagine Cremers inventing some sort of episode like this....que bono ?) is one of the elements of ritual that caused O'Donnell to consider him aside from the Collins/Cremers statements. In addition,the numbers game ( 5, 9, 40, etc...) found in other black magic books were undoubtedly instrumental in formulating his ideas about RDS.



Hey How.

Both the triangle drawing and "counting games" are symptomatic of Obsessive Compulsive Order. It could be that D'onstan, caught in an obsessive personal ritual by Cremers, came up with the "occult" explanation (possibly that he believed himself) that she would be predisposed to accept. At the same time it would give him a certain sinister cache.

How Brown
09-04-2006, 06:34 PM
Magpie:

Well spotted my man.....:thumbsupbud:

......so was his fastidiousness ( he was excessively neat in an age where bathing was not done everyday....and also his personal grooming was impeccable.....not to forget his habit of keeping his nearly worn through pants clean....his habit of walking which borderlined on silent Ninja stuff....and his general aura in the view of Cremers...). These are all signs of obsessive compulsive disorder.

I thought about this awhile ago Magpie after reading both published works on RDS. I also agree,but I did NOT consider what you did about using the ritual stuff as a reason or explanation for the quirks in his behavior. It makes sense...a lot of sense. Back then,there was less understanding of these afflictions and less awareness of the signs of the illnesses as well.

Maybe this is one reason he appears to have been a real loner. He lived alone in 1891 and appears to have died alone 25 years later. Not even enough to have his own burial plot:(

You know...not to derail the thread....but your mentioning of the obsessive/compulsive behavior may explain why we've taken him to be a strange,even evil character since we first heard of him...

He may well have been a tortured guy who used drugs to deal with himself and the world. I have to admit that at times I feel sorry for the guy,no kidding.

Thats why I wondered a couple of years ago if he was sick in his youth,like with whooping cough or some illness that could change the way one's brain operates from an excessively long and drawn out fever. It happens and is a factor in changing normal children into other than what they were previously.

Well...anyway....excellent observation Magpie.:clap:

Debbie D
09-04-2006, 08:14 PM
Magpie:

Well spotted my man.....:thumbsupbud:

......so was his fastidiousness ( he was excessively neat in an age where bathing was not done everyday....and also his personal grooming was impeccable.....not to forget his habit of keeping his nearly worn through pants clean....his habit of walking which borderlined on silent Ninja stuff....and his general aura in the view of Cremers...). These are all signs of obsessive compulsive disorder.

I thought about this awhile ago Magpie after reading both published works on RDS. I also agree,but I did NOT consider what you did about using the ritual stuff as a reason or explanation for the quirks in his behavior. It makes sense...a lot of sense. Back then,there was less understanding of these afflictions and less awareness of the signs of the illnesses as well.

Maybe this is one reason he appears to have been a real loner. He lived alone in 1891 and appears to have died alone 25 years later. Not even enough to have his own burial plot:(

You know...not to derail the thread....but your mentioning of the obsessive/compulsive behavior may explain why we've taken him to be a strange,even evil character since we first heard of him...

He may well have been a tortured guy who used drugs to deal with himself and the world. I have to admit that at times I feel sorry for the guy,no kidding.

Thats why I wondered a couple of years ago if he was sick in his youth,like with whooping cough or some illness that could change the way one's brain operates from an excessively long and drawn out fever. It happens and is a factor in changing normal children into other than what they were previously.

Well...anyway....excellent observation Magpie.:clap:


How, Magpie, and others,
I'm really cautious when it comes to diagnosing based on a few symptoms alone. OCD is something that can be a symptom of many illnesses. For example there is autism. A friend of mine I've known my whole life was recently diagnosed with Aspergers syndrome which is a very mild form of autism. If you didn't know about her diagnosis and met her for the first time, you would think of her as a crass butthole with little regard for human emotion due to her sharp tounge. She just sees emotions differently and doesn't always understand why people react the way they do and vice versa. She is an excellent writer, highly intelligent and college educated, with a good job. As far as the OCD goes she likes to check numbers and make sure evertying is even and neat, and rechecking after it has already been done then again, and again and so on. However just looking at her, she is not someone that society would lable as a "headcase". She would rather read a book then have a family get together...... or instant message on the internet as opposed to talking on the phone.

Then again, there are the really bad cases of autism. I knew a girl in highschool with a severe case who would flip out if she didn't get to watch the smurfs every afternoon. If the busses were running late she had a screaming fit all the way home because she was missing the smurfs.

You'll also find that many people with developmental disorders (((not necessarily autism))) have an alcohol or drug problem,,, (as a coping method for their internal anguish). This also goes for fixating on a habits or "rituals" such as smurfs in the girls case or black magic in RDS's.

OCD can also be something as simple as counting all the fenceposts on the way to the library(every time you go) or as extreme as flipping the light switch five hundred times before leaving a room.

Would "highly functionally developmentally disabled" be a fair term here? I think RDS would definitely fit into this catagory. Definitely intelligent and definitely misunderstood.:o

Debbie D
09-04-2006, 08:29 PM
For anyone interested.....

Diagnostic Criteria For 299.80 Asperger's Disorder
A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction
failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
lack of social or emotional reciprocity
B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:
encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
persistent preoccupation with parts of objects
C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning
D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g., single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behavior (other than social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in childhood

F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A More Down-to-Earth Description
by Lois Freisleben-Cook
I saw that someone posted the DSM IV criteria for Asperger's but I thought it might be good to provide a more down to earth description. Asperger's Syndrome is a term used when a child or adult has some features of autism but may not have the full blown clinical picture. There is some disagreement about where it fits in the PDD spectrum. A few people with Asperger's syndrome are very successful and until recently were not diagnosed with anything but were seen as brilliant, eccentric, absent minded, socially inept, and a little awkward physically.

Although the criteria state no significant delay in the development of language milestones, what you might see is a "different" way of using language. A child may have a wonderful vocabulary and even demonstrate hyperlexia but not truly understand the nuances of language and have difficulty with language pragmatics. Social pragmatics also tend be weak, leading the person to appear to be walking to the beat of a "different drum". Motor dyspraxia can be reflected in a tendency to be clumsy.

In social interaction, many people with Asperger's syndrome demonstrate gaze avoidance and may actually turn away at the same moment as greeting another. The children I have known do desire interaction with others but have trouble knowing how to make it work. They are, however, able to learn social skills much like you or I would learn to play the piano.

There is a general impression that Asperger's syndrome carries with it superior intelligence and a tendency to become very interested in and preoccupied with a particular subject. Often this preoccupation leads to a specific career at which the adult is very successful. At younger ages, one might see the child being a bit more rigid and apprehensive about changes or about adhering to routines. This can lead to a consideration of OCD but it is not the same phenomenon

Many of the weaknesses can be remediated with specific types of therapy aimed at teaching social and pragmatic skills. Anxiety leading to significant rigidity can be also treated medically. Although it is harder, adults with Asperger's can have relationships, families, happy and productive lives.

John Savage
09-07-2006, 10:26 AM
Hi All,

An interesting discussion going on here. A few weeks ago I was reading up on some of my Donston books and it struck me that Donston may have been unwell and possibly a long term sufferer of some mental disorder. Is it just a coincidence that he spent time at Brighton and Southsea as they are both seaside resorts which werer often reccomended in those days for a "rest cure"?

As I am a complete no brainer when it comes to medical matters, can anyone tell me if the neurosthenia from which Donston suffered, would be covered by any of the above illnesses?

Rgds
John

How Brown
09-07-2006, 07:21 PM
Is it just a coincidence that he spent time at Brighton and Southsea as they are both seaside resorts which were often reccomended in those days for a "rest cure"?--John

Dear John:

The "problem" with the whole matter is that it makes no sense for Stephenson to leave Brighton because you are right....it WAS a health resort/recuperation center.

So why go to the foul smelling city....the foulest smelling,most crowded city on Earth ( no offense Londoners..;) )....with a complaint that is associated with excitability and restlessness ? The opposite should have occurred. Stephenson should have stayed in Brighton if the complaint was real....


But...in light of what Robert posted and which I just responded to on another thread.....you may have come on to something.

I believe that ( and this is my opinion only...) that Stephenson went to London not for any murder plans....or for special treatment at London Hospital that superceded the care he would have recieved in Brighton.....but:

Because they weren't running a charity hospital in Brighton like they WERE in London. No free ride in Brighton for Sudden Death.

Either Stephenson ran out of his funds in Brighton....and had no place to stay and invented the complaint....

.... Was told,asked,forced to leave Brighton and it was suggested he go to London because they DID have a policy of taking in patients without sufficient funds....a gesture of concern from people in Brighton.....

......or he went to London with neurasthenia because he could not pay to stay in a local facility in Brighton. In Brighton,he lived at the Cricketers Inn, hardly a recuperation facility.

GOOD POINT,John....and thanks for expanding my original premise on the thread Robert added that newspaper clipping onto.:thumbsupbud:

How Brown
09-07-2006, 09:01 PM
Being the dumbass that I am...let me rephrase those last morsels of genius:

1. Stephenson did not have a complaint....he went to the London Hospital because he was devoid of funds. A hospital stay would satisfy his short term needs. In this scenario,his only objective was to find a lodging. He did,after all,have a friend at one time in London.

2. Stephenson was booted out of the Cricketers Inn. In desparate straits,came up with the idea of neurasthenia.....a "whiplash" like ailment,where it is easy to fake a disease such as neurasthenia. He couldn't afford Brighton's local facility...but three hots and a cot at London Hospital were close to or free.

3. Stephenson did have neurasthenia which may have been attended to less expensively or for free in the London Hospital.

Lets examine what happened 5 months later....

After his December 7th release....he immediately moves to St.Martins.

During the time between December 9th until May of 1889,he is found living at the London _Cottage Mission # 304________ ( which I will fill in a.s.a.p. because I forgot the damned name of that establishment !!!:banghead: )....which means he moved after the St.Martin's flat....up until....

......... May, as he goes back into the hospital....but comes out eventually....I believe it was 70 days later.....to live with Collins.

Moving right along,because this is a pattern.....

.....has a falling out with Collins,loses his back room on Baker Street...moves out to place unknown.

Then is said to be with Woodhull in 1892-93.........

This is the movement of a vagabond. Within the period from June of 1888 to 1893 ( lets say January for right now...)

...he lived in EIGHT different locations in 4 and 1/2 years....At least .....

Collins in Southsea,The Hospital ( twice)...The mystery flat in 1891 between Collins and Woodhull...with Woodhull in '92 or early '93....Brighton...St Martin's and that London Cottage Mission,304 Burdett Road,Mile End*


* from page 247 of Ivor Edwards' JTR Black Magic Rituals

Robert Linford
09-08-2006, 03:55 AM
Re the fresh air argument, here's a link to something I posted Aug 24th 2004.

http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4469/11586.html


Robert

How Brown
09-08-2006, 10:00 PM
Robert:

Many thanks for supplying that link at Spry's....

I hope everyone looks at that link because its one of those things that we all probably have mentioned in our lives....how people who are "clean freaks" seem to have more difficulty than regularly bathed people.

It is worthy to note that Stephenson himself was considered ultra clean...which is a trait or characteristic one picks up about someone on sight without a certain amount of time transpiring before we "discover it' like someone's dining habits. Its there in front of us.

Anyone else have opinions on this excellent find by Robert?

Lyn Resthal
09-10-2006, 04:09 PM
Does anyone have an address for his time in Southsea? Howard, you mention, "the hospital"; which hospital would that be? The London Hospital, or one in Southsea?

Thing is, I know a 'ferret' who would more than likely be able to be able to take photos of locations in Southsea.

Thanks in advance,

Lyn

How Brown
09-10-2006, 04:26 PM
Lyn:

Stephenson,according to Cremers,was at the "dingy,shabby" cabin Collins rented in Southsea in March 1890. Stephenson left the London Hospital after a second stay ( this time for 70 days,beginning in May of '89 ) to live with Mabel since he was able like Clark Gable:rolleyes:

I don't know if he was ever in any hospital other than the London Hospital.

But...ahem...He was in like Flynn with Mabel Col-lin-s...:thumbsupbud:

See what happens when you ask me stuff?:)

Lyn Resthal
09-10-2006, 04:34 PM
So no actual address....

Darn.

There were (still are) thousands of "dingy, shabby cabins" in Southsea, How. Maybe my ferret can take pictures of a few to illustrate...

Thanks anyway, How -- was just a thought.

Lyn

Robert Linford
09-10-2006, 04:34 PM
So did this Clark Gable black magician tell his wife "Frankly my Deary I don't give a damn."?

Lyn Resthal
09-10-2006, 04:38 PM
Robert,

Behave!

Lyn

How Brown
09-10-2006, 04:45 PM
Good one Robert!!!:thumbsupbud:

How Brown
09-10-2006, 08:02 PM
Lyn:

Thanks for the suggestion ! Let me look around and see if I can locate an address in Southsea for Collins in 1890.

Thanks again dear....

admin tim
09-10-2006, 08:07 PM
So a 'clean freak' is going to be able to root around in someone's abdomen and pull out sundry viscera? Not just once but multiple times? Sounds kind of unlikely to me.

How Brown
09-10-2006, 08:15 PM
Tim:

Thats true...someone as conscious of his appearance according to others...would seem out of his element in your colon or uterus.

But then again....there are likely hundreds of surgeons today as then who were/are "clean freaks" who did/do get down and dirty every day...for pay of course. Perhaps someone with a sadistic streak can set aside this "cleanliness is Godliness" inclination for a few moments. Maybe getting dirty with someone's innards on his hands turned him on sexually....I don't know.

Maybe Magpie can help out here....aren't shochets supposed to be very hygiene conscious ?

Magpie
10-13-2006, 08:34 AM
Hey How!

I will check into this, but here's some thoughts off the top of my head.

Although nothing to do with keeping Kosher, a ritual handwashing before handling food or eating is common.

Any Jew would be considered "unclean" after coming into contact with blood (especially human blood) and would require ritual bathing. A Schochet, as a minor cleric, would be especially sensitive to this.

Also, Donstans behaviour suggests he was beyond a simple "clean freak"--his ritualistic behaviour strongly suggests that he had OCD. The "door" ritual in particular points to this.

I would imagine that for a man like Donstan, the feces (rather than the blood) encountered in Mitre Sq would have driven him squirrelly (although it might explain the lack of killings in October :thumbsupbud: )

How Brown
10-14-2006, 05:50 AM
Magpie:

The Schulcan Aruch ( or Babylonian Talmud ) has several passages on what to do about blood,not only for handling blood,but even what to do about women ( considered unclean ) who are menstruating.

If my memory serves me,Jews who followed the Baby Tal were not to enter rivers or bathing areas where women experiencing their monthly visitor may have entered. They were encouraged to avoid them as much as possible which goes to show what sort of "rules" or "guidelines" rank and file Jews,not to mention enforcers of Jewish law like shochets, were obligated to follow.

Of course,the elaboration on handling animal blood by shochets is mentioned in detail.