Goals In Ripperology......

[How Brown]

What particular goal do you,as a seasoned,semi-seasoned,or novice Ripperologist "have" in mind....in those moments you reflect on the field?

Me?

I would like to see every known suspect accounted for and eliminated if possible.

You ?

[Debbie D]

Hmmm... my goal would be to solve the case but what do I know? My other goal for tonight is to finish off this bottle of wine. I think the wine will be long gone before I solve the case...:clap: but I'm working on it.

Seriously though,,, HOward I think eliminating the usual suspects would be a good start.

[Night Stalker]

Me ?

Im a firm believer that it's none of the usual suspects.

On judgement day, we are all going to be stood in a long line. Someone is going to ask - "who is JTR ?". A quiet unasuming, little man is going to step forward.

I think he will have been arrested, questioned then let go at the time of the murders, then never given a second thought by the police.

[Chris G.]

Hear you go, Howie. Since you asked to see my goal. (http://www.taylorsgardenbuildings.co.uk/store/images/d_5357.jpg) :D

[How Brown]

Dear C.G.

As long as Van Nistelrooy or Giggs are puttin' their balls in that net,its a good goal by me !:D

It would be such a compliment to the history of the Victorian Period if some of the historians ( you for one,for sure...) with the help of relentless bastards like Linford,Savage,Dimolianis and others....could collaborate on individual histories of suspects or aspects of the case.

For instance...A compilation of Adam Wood's current Ripperologist articles on East End life can be found in other reference works.....but not in one place.

The Whitechapel Murders are such a significant part of the history of this period and have been very instrumental in a variety of ways that sometimes people forget the influence they had,in unison,with the burgeoning social movements of that time which impacted the World.....not just Britain.....well into the 20th Century.

You have a very objective manner in presenting your material ( and I do pay attention to what you write in other forums....not counting Casebook....) and were a great fact-presenter in the documentary of the War of 1812 which appeared on television earlier this year.

If the Gang of Four decide to hire a front man....you are elected.;)

[Chris G.]

Hi Howie

Thanks for your kind remarks about my work. Incidentally, I am speaking up in your neck of the woods on the afternoon of Sunday, October 29, in Burlington, New Jersey, at the Burlington Historical Society, on the significance of Captain James Lawrence and "Don't Give Up the Ship" and other icons of the War of 1812 - my contention being that although the war itself was a stalemate, the symbols that came out of the war helped to made this nation what it is.

Chris

[Night Stalker]

The things I'd love to get my teeth into, are the unsnswered questions surrounding 13 Millers Court. -

1. Who locked the door ?

2. If so,did JTR, have the key prior to Kelly's murder ?

3. Amongst the warm fire ashes, Abberline found remnants of a skirt and hat. Did these items belong to Kelly ?

4. Mary Cox said at 3.10am, 13 Millers Court was in darkness. But, as Abberline said, JTR needed a blazing fire to carry out his work.

[Sam Flynn]

One useful goal would be to persuade ancestry.com to re-index their census information. It's so riddled with mis-transcriptions, and gaps, that it's in dire need of an overhaul. Apart from addressing those errors and omissions, it'd be a good idea to standardise the features - for instance, I believe that it's possible to search on "Occupation" in the 1881 census, but not in any of the others.

Once they've done that, it'd be nifty if they could offer a premium service to specialist researchers, in order that more precise structured queries could be fired at the data. The parameters are fine for everyday genealogy, but the "cloudier" picture that people like us are interested in needs a bit more oomph behind it than simply name, date and county.

[Wickerman]

I would like to see every known suspect accounted for and eliminated if possible.


You want to kill off all the suspects?
Thats a bit rash isn't it buddy?
;)

If I had the time, and access to the Newspaper Library at Colindale, I would like to check who had been arrested for garroting in the years prior to the Whitechapel murders.... I want to know if any were released in or before 1888.

[How Brown]

Hey WickerMan !

Well...I had this idea the other day at work....I was imagining that in 50 years....I'll still be around of course...all the well known suspects and marginal ones were finally documented and excused from the list.

The future generation of Ripperologists would have to start all over. I was wondering how that would be.

I wondered who else could be offered up on the current "every two years a new suspect" program.

Maybe a goofy idea...and not my first one at that.

Not an effort to stop researching the individuals,of course. Stephenson is always going to be of interest to me,at least. There's tons of stuff to sift through. That area will never be complete.

A suspect free field....with all the other information at our disposal.

Your suggestion is pretty damned good Wick.

[How Brown]

Why not,if we can,list the areas of Ripperological research which may have been underevaluated or overlooked in the past here on this thread? In addition, a re-evaluation of areas which are of interest.

The recent "problem" in Stephenson based research that has been revealed over the last week and left unanswered so far ( it won't go down the memory hole of anyone here for certain....) illustrates something that I thought I would mention and to see what anyone else thought about it.

First....and pardon me if I seem to be critical of "native" Ripperologists........because I'm not and never will be....there is a measure of respect for those who live in the U.K. since,in the eyes of some non-Brits....it is a British series of crimes that eventually became a worldwide phenomena. All of us here have been beneficiaries of those Brits who laid the foundation of the field. Thats obvious.

Its also obvious and often very difficult for the majority of non-Brits to make the trip to the U.K. to research material on one or more areas which are of interest. Thats a given.

With that said, there is an attitude of acceptance for whatever those from Britain declare in certain areas or how facts are reported, specifically since these "areas" of interest have already been investigated and reported on by native Ripperologists. Again,in almost every circumstance,the truth of whatever matter in question has been reported. Fortunately,the researchers in the U.K. have a higher respect for the truth than most nations have. Its to our benefit as non-Brits,that they HAVE been as reliable as desired.

So in essence,the purpose of this rant is this: Even though a responsible reply to the discoveries by Spiro Dimolianis has not been recieved....the reaction that I have and might have in common with some of you is this....Its good to recheck all "established" facts in those areas one is interested in.

I think Spiro will agree that what he did was "simple stuff". No one before Spiro took the time to check out what the London Hospital register/ledger revealed. It was accepted as an article of faith,since a "Ripperologist" from way back in 1963 had "checked" out the LH archives and has a significantly different interpretation of what the real LH ledger states. We wait for the response certain to come.

I feel that Spiro has inadvertantly touched on the fact that data needs to be reassessed.

I know personally that this "attitude of acceptance" to the "facts" regarding RDS would NEVER have been approached by me. I accepted them and didn't even consider them being out of kilter.

So....if possible....please list as Sam Flynn and others have...your areas of specific interest. Maybe it will require,as the RDS hospital entry did....a second opinion.

Thank you.

[Maria Birchwood]

How:

This is not new. Melvin and Peter both discovered that an entry on an record had been deliverately altered IN the original document with a pencil to make it look like another number to suit the diary people. A long dispute ensued, but only those who are in the know, followed that discussion.

-Maria

[How Brown]

Maria:

You're referring to the Maybrick Diary,correct?

One thing that might have accelerated a conclusion to the never ending battle about the MD would have been Melvin's disclosure to whom he felt were involved with the construction of the Diary.

[Maria Birchwood]

How:

Yes, the JTR diary. Its someone who knows Liverpool well, 2.) Its also an author who has written about Liverpool murders before and its interesting to point out that Peter has found out that all the original people associated with this fraud, the watch and the diary amazingly live within a mile of each other ! Coincidence or what ??
I don´t think so...

-Maria

[Maria Birchwood]

How:

Further more... if there had been a real serious attempt to re-test this Maybrick Dairy, by the people concerned, the sensible, easiest and intelligent road would have been to have contacted the original scientist Dr. Diana Simpson who actually did test it, and proved the diary contained the modern component chloroacetamide in the ink... and about how much ink was required from her notes to find the chloroacetamide. she would have been able to tell the other professor how much ink she used to re-test and confirm her original findings.

In any case... nearly at the end of yet another year, the fools are still out there courting ga,ga, to Caroline´s endless nonsensical manoevres. The only sensible people there are Chris Phillis, Wickerman and Roger Palmer, who actually said: " The simple question of whether or not the ink contained chloroacetamide, would not require PRE - 1992 diamine at all, and to suppress mention of the Analysis for Industry test, which concluded chloroacetamide was present."
Exactly.


-Maria

[Shawn-a]

Peter has found out that all the original people associated with this fraud, the watch and the diary amazingly live within a mile of each other !
It's not quite in the same league as Obed Golan's discovery of both the Solomon's Tablet and the St. James Ossuary within a couple of years of each other, obviously suspicious discoveries which didn't stop my local museum from displaying the ossuary and getting 100,000 visitors to see it, including myself, 16 bucks a pop.
My main point is that science always lags behind art. At the time of the Shroud, science was 500 years behind artists. Scientists have closed the gap but by how much....

[Maria Birchwood]

After 14 years of talk, the diary has not been proven genuine. 14 long years of airing is enough.

Maybe they are aiming for the longest running hoax in the Guinness Book of Records. Yes, its so ridiculous everyone around is laughing at you.

-Maria