The Ripper and the Golden Dawn.

[Magpie]

Here a brief article some may find interesting:

http://www.ritualabusefree.org/The%20Golden%20Dawn.htm

[John Savage]

Hi Magpie,

Thanks for that link, entertaining if nothing else.

Problem is, the site seems to be run by one of those wacky extreme religious groups that flourish in the US, and I became suspicious when I read that "The courageous work of Stephen Knight showed the ‘Ripper’ murders not only to be Masonic ritual murders, but also that they were covered up and concealed by Freemasons. There is also widespread belief that Stephen Knight’s death in 1985, was murder"

The group running this site also run something called Ex Masons For Jesus! Anyway I don't think we should take this site too seriously, perhaps best to enjoy it after a few beers when I am sure it would become hilarious.
Rgds
John

[Mags]

Man, I love the Internet! Something for absolutely everyone!!

[How Brown]

Magpie:

Ditto on the kudos for finding that.

I'm wondering why they mention LSD,since LSD wasn't invented until 1944. Shame that page isn't accessible.

Nice list of references,too.:thumbsupbud:

[Magpie]

Hi Magpie,

Thanks for that link, entertaining if nothing else.

Problem is, the site seems to be run by one of those wacky extreme religious groups that flourish in the US, and I became suspicious when I read that "The courageous work of Stephen Knight showed the ‘Ripper’ murders not only to be Masonic ritual murders, but also that they were covered up and concealed by Freemasons. There is also widespread belief that Stephen Knight’s death in 1985, was murder"

The group running this site also run something called Ex Masons For Jesus! Anyway I don't think we should take this site too seriously, perhaps best to enjoy it after a few beers when I am sure it would become hilarious.
Rgds
John

Hi John.

Sadly yes, the SRA networks are less than reliable--most are paranoid, bordering on the hysterical. But know How's interest in the potential occult aspects of the case I couldn't not post it, really. I trusted y'all are intelligent enough (from what I've always seen) to recognize the curiosity--rather than research--value of the story :thumbsupbud:

[Magpie]

Magpie:

Ditto on the kudos for finding that.

I'm wondering why they mention LSD,since LSD wasn't invented until 1944. Shame that page isn't accessible.

Nice list of references,too.:thumbsupbud:

Hi How!

I'm guessing that the book covers the Golden Dawn from the inception right through to their (perceived) mordern activities. I'd like to read the book, but I'm not shelling out $8 for it:)

[John Savage]

Hi Magpie,

You were quite right to post the link and I thank you for it, as these things can often lead us to other sources of information. It was simply that when I found that remark about Stephen Knight I felt the need to explore the site a little more and decided that anything they had to say needed to be taken with a pinch of salt. ( a bit like SK really).

"SRA Networks", I am afraid that I am unfamiliar with that, perhaps you could enlighten me?

Rgds
John

[Dan Norder]

I believe Magpie was referring to organized groups who claim that there is an extensive conspiracy of "Satanic Ritual Abuse" afoot in the world causing murders and mayhem way beyond what normal crime statistics indicate, thanks to an extensive coverup by high-placed leaders of this cult.

Here's a link to a site has all sorts of detailed info on the topic:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sra.htm

The page on the history of SRA and other folktales has some pretty remarkable gaps (the idea that these beliefs were ever inactive is silly) and some mistakes (it's very unlikely that the majority of witchcraft accusations were actually made against followers of an "Old Religion", and especially not Wicca, as it is a modern religion invented with the last century or so), but otherwise I can generally recommend the site.

Incidentally, all too many people who present themselves as experts on occult crime are really just SRA believers without any knowledge of actual occult beliefs or practices. This includes many of those who offer their services to law enforcement personnel. Unfortunately there isn't a way for most police forces or individuals to test an alleged occult expert's actual knowledge.

And, also, it's worth noting that the lumping together of all pagans as Satanists, as Joe Chetcuti did in his recent "Tumblety was a Satanist" theory (not that there's good evidence he was pagan either), is a standard feature of SRA beliefs. Ditto with claiming that Freemasons/Jews/Catholics/Moslems/New Agers/Atheists/Mormons/etc. are Satanists.

[John Savage]

Hi Dan,

Thanks for that, and I am now a little more wise.

Being a devout sceptic I am afraid that I dismiss all these ideas of satanic or ritual abuse as nonsense, although I do receive ritual abuse on a regular basis from an organistaion calling themselves Barclays Bank Plc.

Rgds
John

[How Brown]

Dan is correct on how the police authorities of large cities ( such as Philadelphia or even bigger cities like London ) will....when stumped on the motive of a certain crime or series of murders....will now,based on an overblown estimated proportion of murders seemingly ritual in basis being disseminated in Western society....ask those with expertise on the crimes that were motivated by ritualism as well as psychics ( One famous one lives not more than 1/2 mile from me,Valerie Morrison) to offer their opinions on the crime at hand to determine if it is/was possible that a "ritual motive" ( usually non-Western and Afro-Caribbean based) was/is evident.

This procedure has more to do with the fact that we in the 21st century are considerate of ALL possible motives,if one is not readily apparent. The police are simply covering all bases as well as their asses.

For instance....if a victim appears to have been murdered and displayed in some sort of ritual fashion, although it wasn't the intention of the perpetrator...and the police are stumped...they will call in qualified professionals to ascertain if this crime has a "ritual" link or scent to it. The chances are that a qualified professional will say its possible since thats the grease that keeps their wheels lubed and in the public eye.

Despite it not really being a "ritual" crime, the potentiality of it being a ritual murder remains until all the loose ends are tied up.

Thats the part of the story that we seldom hear about.

This is what I feel happened within the article I compiled for Dan 2 years ago regarding the North Philadelphian who had his heart,liver and lung removed and left in a debris filled burned out dwelling in the heart of The Badlands....a place where anything goes after dark..

So far,nothing other than the nearly 4 year old initial story/stories have been discussed in the Philadelphia area papers...or by the police. They asked Dr.Perlmutter to assist them,but her guess,in all reality,is no better at this point than the psychics they asked to "help" them regarding a possible link to ritualism.

Whomever killed that man ( Ripper Notes readers may refer to the July 2004 issue for a fairly complete backdrop to this terrible tragedy) may still be around. I seriously doubt that ritualism was in any way a part of this crime. Then again,should someone else surface minus three vital organs,I'll stand corrected.

For one thing,if it was a ritual,the perpetrator(s) have not struck again to anyone's knowledge after nearly 4 years. In addition, the selection of the site where he was murdered would took some effort to take his torso there in the first place. It wasn't displayed like say,an Eddowes or Chapman were ( killed on site ) and was most likely,an act of rage on the spot.

[Magpie]

"SRA Networks", I am afraid that I am unfamiliar with that, perhaps you could enlighten me?

Rgds
John

Yeah, what Dan said :D


Hi How.

SRA networks operate along the same lines (and in fact with many of the same beliefs) as believers in CIA mind-control, or alien abduction. A vast majority of them are victims in the 80's fad for Recovered Memory Syndrome, in which the psychologists ended up doing more damage than they healed.

Unfortunately it created a lucrative industry for self-proclaimed "experts", most of who had little qualifications beyond a psychology degree or past police career, combined with Conservative Christian values and a keen sense of marketing.

I know more about those quacks than I care to, simply because in high school I fit their definition of an "at risk" youth--high-grade underachieving loner who played D&D, listened to metal, watched horror movies and read a lot (especially of the "wrong" books). My school board, PTA, local church groups ad nausium constantly launched campaigns to expunge almost everything that I enjoyed. And they often used the "resources" of these kooks as both justification and blueprint for their actions. Of course as a non-voting minor there was little to stop them.

And of course it was all a storm in teacup, because I grew up into a well-adjust member of society who plays heavy metal, watches horror movies and still reads the same wrong things, plus spends a lot of free time studying a famous serial kill.....um......okay, so maybe I'm not the best example :rolleyes:

All of this is seperate from actual ritual crimes, which I admit likely do exist to some extent. But these dufuses go after the soft targets--sort of like the ATF raiding an Amish community becuase it's easier than going after the Hell's Angels.

At least us metalheads had it easier than the Goths :thumbsupbud:

[Magpie]

Hi How.

Sorry I got caught up on my rant and forgot my point, which was that SRA and ritual crime are too separate things. It's like equating crop-circles with astronomy, just because both groups deal with object from (what they believe to be) from Outer Space :D

[How Brown]

Mag:

There is,as you just showed,an enormous gulf between researching crimes that do have a link to Palo Mayombe ( as one example ) and actively seeking links within crimes to justify the existence of groups that see Beelzebub far too often for my liking.

I give the "seekers" a little credit though,Mag. At least they aren't so self absorbed as many parents are of kids who commit horrendous crimes in that despite the overblown approach to Satanic crimes by the SRA types....they might be helping some parents of kids that are involved with that time wasting activity and of course,providing entertainment for the rest of us.:)

[Dan Norder]

The page on the history of SRA and other folktales has some pretty remarkable gaps (the idea that these beliefs were ever inactive is silly) and some mistakes (it's very unlikely that the majority of witchcraft accusations were actually made against followers of an "Old Religion", and especially not Wicca, as it is a modern religion invented with the last century or so), but otherwise I can generally recommend the site.

By the way, the people who run this site have since emailed me to say that this section will be updated to take these concerns into account...! I wasn't expecting that at all, but wow.

[Magpie]

Hi Dan.

Religioustolerance is actually pretty good about accepting feedback and trying to correct things. It's a pretty good website all round

[TimeRover]

Render unto Satan?

Back when I had a "day job", one of our corporate clients was late for the marketing meeting. He apologized and said his day hadn't gone well and that he was wearing one black sock and one brown one. The reason, he said, was Satan.

The very moment before I burst out laughing at this absurdity I remembered that this guy was a very devout Fundamentalist Christian who did actually believe Satan was out to confound him on a daily basis, even to the point of mixing up his socks. I gritted my teeth and listened to my boss agreeing with him (they were of like mind). That scene has stuck with me every since.

To attribute a simple human error to the 'power' of a dark entity (should he/she/they exist) was a revealing look at our behavior. Rather than saying "I screwed up and grabbed the wrong sock" this fellow actually believed the Prince of Darkness had gone out of his way to make sure he wasn't color coordinated. How did the different sock lead to Satan's domination of the world? I didn't have the luxury to ask.

I am sure there are ritual slayings -- not all those who practice paganism are of the Light variety. To attribute a huge share of our murderous carnage to them is much like hearing hoofbeats and thinking of zebras.

TimeRover

[Robert Linford]

Hi Jana

I remember Colin Wilson once saying something about murders in the Middle Ages. He said that then, as sometimes now, when someone was revealed to have committed appalling crimes, the reaction from those who knew him was "but he seemed such a nice, ordinary little man." Wilson says that demonic possession was a way of reconciling the magnitude of the crime with the ordinariness of the perpetrator - in the days before psychology caught on.

Robert