The Maybrick Case

[admin tim]

http://www.geocities.com/stevenhortonuk/jamesmaybrick.html

[Caroline Morris]

Aaaargh!! The Poste House in Cumberland St - James Maybrick's favourite pub???

What's wrong with the Post Office Tavern (as it was officially called in 1888) in School Lane, just a stone's throw from his boyhood home and Whitechapel, and a couple of minutes' walk to the station for trains to Aigburth?

How might a regular customer have referred to it in their diary, if they spelled post haste with an e after post?

How many people imagine they would write: I took refreshment at the Poste Office Tavern? Is it not possible that they might have thought of it as simply the Poste House?

Love,

Caz
X

[robingoodfellow]

Aaaargh!! The Poste House in Cumberland St - James Maybrick's favourite pub???

What's wrong with the Post Office Tavern (as it was officially called in 1888) in School Lane, just a stone's throw from his boyhood home and Whitechapel, and a couple of minutes' walk to the station for trains to Aigburth?

How might a regular customer have referred to it in their diary, if they spelled post haste with an e after post?

How many people imagine they would write: I took refreshment at the Poste Office Tavern? Is it not possible that they might have thought of it as simply the Poste House?

Love,

Caz
X

Thats interesting Caz, so many people have assumed that he was talking about the Poste House in Cumberland street, but I'm glad to see that there are other candidates out there. I mean, what, beside the name 'Poste House' indicates that its the Cumberland Street premises that the diary is talking about? Nothing really I guess....

Robin

[Mr. Poster]

Hi ho

I refuse to buy any more Shirley Harrison books as I think she is tricky and I do not like the way she writes...but....

I heard that a recent book of hers contained the following:

rumors of a diary by the Ripper in St. Louis in 1888,

rumors of a Florrie diary in 1889,

documents purporting to indicate a Maybrick suspicion sometime earlier than the diary appeared

Can anyone enlighten me please?

p

[Magpie]

Hi ho

I refuse to buy any more Shirley Harrison books as I think she is tricky and I do not like the way she writes...but....

I heard that a recent book of hers contained the following:

rumors of a diary by the Ripper in St. Louis in 1888,

rumors of a Florrie diary in 1889,

documents purporting to indicate a Maybrick suspicion sometime earlier than the diary appeared

Can anyone enlighten me please?

p

Hej da, Mr. P.

I haven't heard anything about Ms Harrison's book, but Florrie's diary isn't a rumour. It's known that Florrie's diaries came up for sale and were purchased by her mother, whereupon they disappear from the stage of History.

[Mr. Poster]

hi ho Magpie

I wouldnt mind knowing what was in those.............

Although I doubt it was anything Ripper/Maybrick related as then they would have been used to exonerate Florrie?

Although being married to the ripper was probably more of a reason to kill him and wouldnt have helped her being innocent?

Still............would be interesting to read them.

p

[Magpie]

Mr. P.

The problem is that the diaries would have likely made things worse for Florrie, since it likely contained information about the unhappiness of her marriage and her affairs (and let's face it, she was convicted of adultery more than anything).

I think the defense would have wanted those diaries to suppress, more than any other reason.

[Robert Linford]

Adultery rather than adulteration.:happy:

[Mr. Poster]

hi ho

Regarding the name Hammersmith or similar.

I did notice that on a genealogy website I was on that the name Hammersmith was more popularly...Hammersley or Hammersly.

Of which there appear to be a posse in Liverpool around the 1800's.

I wonder what is the chance that the Maybricks knew them as Hammersmiths but their names had been recorded as Hammersly or Hammersley (possibly to get rid of German connotations or whatever)?

It seems Hammersley and Hammersmith are given the same coat-of-arms on the type of sites that sell such stuff (red shield three rams heads).

I though that might be just laziness but Hammerschmidt which could be expected to be more similar to Hammersmith has a different crest...green with dolphins.

p

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/hammersly.jpg

[How Brown]

Dear Caz:

One of the reasons I have always ( not that it matters ) considered the Diary less than reliable,shall we say, is this reference to Poste House, when indeed it was the Muck Midden at that time.

However, in the sake of objectivity, another consideration that I arrived at regarding this obvious problem for the Diary is this:

Bars and saloons can be known by names other than the one they are known by to the public. "Magpie & Mr. Posters Bar & Grill" may be also known as "Caz's Love Shack" to those who frequent the bar....as sort of a nickname.

Also....who is to say that there wasn't a desire in the mind of the owners of the Muck Midden to change the name of the saloon to Poste House that didn't transpire until afterwards...but had been on the back burner so to speak.

Several bars in my neighborhood are still referred to by their older,pre-Yuppie names.

Just a thought.

[Chris G.]

Bars and saloons can be known by names other than the one they are known by to the public. "Magpie & Mr. Posters Bar & Grill" may be also known as "Caz's Love Shack" to those who frequent the bar....as sort of a nickname.



Funny you should say this, How, while making those funnies. I have been told by a Liverpudlian who knows that the upstairs of the Poste House is today a homosexual hangout. Not that there's anything wrong with that, as they would say on "Seinfeld." :party:

[Magpie]

Bars and saloons can be known by names other than the one they are known by to the public. "Magpie & Mr. Posters Bar & Grill" may be also known as "Caz's Love Shack" to those who frequent the bar....as sort of a nickname.



Or indeed "Ringer's" for the Britannia....

[SirRobertAnderson]

[/I]What's wrong with the Post Office Tavern (as it was officially called in 1888) in School Lane, just a stone's throw from his boyhood home and Whitechapel, and a couple of minutes' walk to the station for trains to Aigburth?

Not a blessed thing. Didn't the Diarist also spell post haste poste haste or some such ?

The textual error arguments really don't hold up to close examination. :smash:

[Caroline Morris]

The problem with the Cumberland St venue is that there were no post house connotations at all until the building of a new post office in nearby Victoria St in the early 1890s. I don't know when it was first decided to build the new post office there, or when it was first decided that the little pub should be renamed the 'New Post Office Hotel' in its honour. (It had previously been the 'Wrexham House' officially, while the "Muck Midden" was always just its nickname). But when it became the 'New Post Office Hotel', the 'Post Office Tavern' in School Lane became the 'Old Post Office Hotel'.

Whoever decided to rename the old "Muck Midden" the 'Poste House', in the 20th century, was obviously attempting a little blast from the past, akin to a nostalgic 1888 pub goer referring to his local as the 'post house'.

The 'Old Post Office' today has its nickname - I was in there myself and one drinker told me he had been calling it the "HQ" for about five years. The landlord of Rigby's in Dale St directed a fellow researcher of mine to this pub (and not the one in nearby Cumberland St) when asked for the "post house", and the same thing happened to me when I met a lovely old bloke in the American Bar on Lime St.

One thing that never made sense to me was the idea that Mike Barrett - a seasoned Liverpool pub goer - could have got so may other things right, but got the one thing wrong that he had no business getting wrong. No wonder he had to pretend that he put the 20th century 'Poste House' in as a "deliberate mistake" to prove it was all his own work. :rolleyes:

Love,

Caz
X

[Paul Butler]

Morning Caz and all.

I know this is nothing new, but it hasn’t been mentioned in a while so here goes.

Sir Jim says….

“……took refreshment at the Poste House it was there I finally decided London it shall be.”

Now it’s not unreasonable to infer from this that Sir Jim was sitting in a “Poste house” in London as he made up his mind to set his campaign in Whitechapel London, rather than Whitechapel Liverpool. Why else decide that “London it shall be.”?

I was never really all that convinced by this idea before, as I thought the context in which this sentence appeared in the diary meant that Sir Jim had to be in Liverpool, but now after reading it again I’ve sort of warmed to the idea.

The previous paragraph talks about receiving a letter from Michael and Sir Jim thinking he may visit him. There is no reason to think that he could not have been in London as he wrote that.

Are we looking for a “Poste House” in the wrong place altogether?

Answers on a postcard please.

Regards.

Paul

[Paul Butler]

Sorry....should have been postecard!

[Paul Butler]

Hi ho

I refuse to buy any more Shirley Harrison books as I think she is tricky and I do not like the way she writes...but....

I heard that a recent book of hers contained the following:

rumors of a diary by the Ripper in St. Louis in 1888,

rumors of a Florrie diary in 1889,

documents purporting to indicate a Maybrick suspicion sometime earlier than the diary appeared

Can anyone enlighten me please?

p

Hi ho MrP.

Now here's a bit of food for thought.......

The Liverpool Echo of 16th Sept 1889 reported that a gentleman, who said he was a Maybrick relative was offering Florrie's diaries to various London publishers.....

"The Gentleman was seen by the manager of the firm, who himself examined the diary, and expresses his belief in its authenticity. He says that the writing in each of the three books is different, although it is that of the same writer."

Familiar?

regards.

Paul