The Jews are the men....

[Mike Covell]

Whilst transcribing I found this one, anyone ever heard of it before?

3rd October 1888 Eastern Morning News
It was proved that among certain fanatical Jews there existed a superstition that if a Jew became intimate with a Christian woman he would atone for his offence by killing and mutilating the object of his passion. Passages of the Talmud were quoted in support of this view.

[Chris G.]

Whilst transcribing I found this one, anyone ever heard of it before?

3rd October 1888 Eastern Morning News
It was proved that among certain fanatical Jews there existed a superstition that if a Jew became intimate with a Christian woman he would atone for his offence by killing and mutilating the object of his passion. Passages of the Talmud were quoted in support of this view.

Hi Mike

This is part of the ancient blood libel that was told about the Jews down through the centuries and that is still promoted by anti-semites today. Acting Chief Rabbi Hermann Adler was one of the leaders of the Jewish community who wrote to the press to deny this type of ethnic smear.

Such stories as the one you quote were told in regard to the 1884 murder of a Christian girl named Frances Mnich in a village near Cracow. The murder was alleged to have been ordered by a Galician Jew named Moses Ritter. The man was found guilty and sentenced to death but later acquitted, it was said because Stochlinski, the Polish Jew who actually committed the murder, had in the meanwhile died in prison.

Rabbi Adler wrote: "in no Jewish book is such a barbarity even hinted at. Nor is there any record in the criminal annals of any country of a Jew having been convicted of such a terrible attrocity." See Manchester Guardian, 4 October 1888 (http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/manchester_guardian/mg881004.html) and Paul Begg, Jack the Ripper: The Facts, pp. 226-7.

Chris

[Mike Covell]

Thanks Chris, yes it is a part of the Newspaper account of Ritters trial.

[How Brown]

Blood libel or not, some Jews DO consider and act upon the belief that non-Jews are lesser than themselves.

http://www.times.com/books/first/k/karpin-murder.html

Written by two Jews in the New York Times.

Even the darling of the liberals,the loathsome Allen Dershowitz, nerdy little lawyer in the O.J. Simpson trial, wrote a book lamenting the out-marriage of so many Juden to non-Juden. A liberal Jew promoting racial self-preservation in an age where the Jews helped encourage miscegenation the first place??? ? Gadzooks ! What next? Equal time in the Times for David Duke to promote his book on White-self determination?



Bin-Nun, in fact, demanded that the yeshiva be closed down. He decried the racist ruling of its patron, Rabbi Yitzhak Ginzburg, that "Jewish blood and gentile blood are not the same." Ginzburg defended the act of one of the yeshiva's students who opened indiscriminate fire on Arab laborers standing alongside a highway near Tel Aviv in 1993, and he subsequently lauded Dr. Baruch Goldstein for massacring Arabs in Hebron. He wears a long black coat, dabbles in Jewish mysticism, and is a magnet for "born-again" Jews (nonpracticing Jews who have returned to religion and become radically pious).
A few years ago Ginzburg debated Bin-Nun before the small group of students at the Joseph Still Lives Yeshiva for more than three hours. He explained that he differentiates between the murder of a gentile and that of a Jew because the Torah places a "light prohibition" on the former and a "grave" one on the latter. Bin-Nun argued that murder is murder, plain and simple, and that the murder of a gentile is a desecration of the Jewish religion. Yet most of Ginzburg's students supported their rabbi's view. Some even claimed that the murder of a gentile is an act sanctified by God.
***************************

I suggest that people investigate THIS BELOW before leaping to the conclusion that a Jew could not believe in some of the same shit as above. Lets face it. This whole "Jew" thing upsets the liberal element, who are always soooo ready to remind us of the events in World War 2... and it often attracts those who see Jews sitting in trees waiting to pounce on unsuspecting Gentiles at every turn in the far right extremist groups. For us here, Jews should be treated as a group like any other when it comes to discussing the murders, not their track record as an entity. Just like Lascars or Poles...or even people who live in Hull.

1888. Breslau, Germany. On 21st July, Max Bernstein, aged 24, a pupil at the Talmudic College, met an eight-year-old Christian boy, Severin Hacke, bought him some sweetmeats and took him to his (Bernstein's) home. There, he stripped the boy of his clothing and with a knife made incisions in a certain part of the child's body, collecting the blood that came from the cuts on a piece of blotting-paper. When the boy was naturally frightened, the Jew told him there was no need for fear as he only wanted a little blood.
The boy went home and said nothing about the matter; but his father, seeing the scars, questioned him and the truth came out.
Bernstein was arrested, and the prosecuting attorney after preventing a maneuver on the part of the defending counsel to have the case settled behind closed doors, maintained that this was a ritual case for the extraction of blood for the needs of a Jewish rite.
The Court, however, refused to recognize this, but sentenced Bernstein to three months' imprisonment for having made incisions in the body of the child.

[Mike Covell]

The story of the Jewish man and the 8 year old Christian was pretty horrific, especially as it appears the child was quite trusting off this man.
It seem's that whenever religion is involved, there will always be blood shedding.

[How Brown]

Mike:

There was a cult of kooks in Mexico and South Texas who believed if you ate the brain of a "Gringo"....a term of endearment for a non-Hispanic...you would gain magic powers.

Some of these people went to college and one...a woman...was an outstanding student in a University.

Before anyone assumes that I am inferring that it was plausible,hence possible,that a cadre of Jews attempted some ritual in the WM, allow me to state that I am not doing that. It IS possible that someone with a religious fervor, Christian or Jewish, "could have" had this on their mind when they disembowled the victims. I think at present Schwartz may have seen our boy and he was by description a no good goyische schnook.

[WRITEFX]

o/t This topic is getting to me - today I was getting some very strange looks from someone sitting with me and I discovered that I had been repeating the grafitti phase aloud while watching the trailer for a Jewish documentary.

People ought to be aware there are sublimal messages hidden in this forum!

[How Brown]

WFX:

The last thing we want is someone thinking the site is unsympathetic to issues in certain communities. We try to treat everyone the same here...awfully... but without any intentional inferences which would make them stand out from the rest of the human race.

Except goblins and leprechauns and most Welsh. They're fair game. Mike shot a goblin on one of his paranormal excursions the other day and thats a definitely ascertained fact....

[Robert Linford]

It is even possible for a Jew to be anti-semitic. I give the example of chess genius Bobby Fischer.

However, at least as far as Kosminski goes, I think we can rule this out as he seemed religiously orthodox.

[How Brown]

Bob:

Its a condition which in German is known as "selbsthass"....or "self-hate" There's a lot of Jews who didn't "like" Jews. Fischer is an overt example and a good one. Many Jews who converted to Christianity had a lot to say about their former brethren especially when it came to the 'blood libel" accusations down through the ages. But thats for another time and thread.

[Chris G.]

I suggest that people investigate THIS BELOW before leaping to the conclusion that a Jew could not believe in some of the same shit as above. Lets face it. This whole "Jew" thing upsets the liberal element, who are always soooo ready to remind us of the events in World War 2... and it often attracts those who see Jews sitting in trees waiting to pounce on unsuspecting Gentiles at every turn in the far right extremist groups. For us here, Jews should be treated as a group like any other when it comes to discussing the murders, not their track record as an entity. Just like Lascars or Poles...or even people who live in Hull.

1888. Breslau, Germany. On 21st July, Max Bernstein, aged 24, a pupil at the Talmudic College, met an eight-year-old Christian boy, Severin Hacke, bought him some sweetmeats and took him to his (Bernstein's) home. There, he stripped the boy of his clothing and with a knife made incisions in a certain part of the child's body, collecting the blood that came from the cuts on a piece of blotting-paper. When the boy was naturally frightened, the Jew told him there was no need for fear as he only wanted a little blood.
The boy went home and said nothing about the matter; but his father, seeing the scars, questioned him and the truth came out.
Bernstein was arrested, and the prosecuting attorney after preventing a maneuver on the part of the defending counsel to have the case settled behind closed doors, maintained that this was a ritual case for the extraction of blood for the needs of a Jewish rite.
The Court, however, refused to recognize this, but sentenced Bernstein to three months' imprisonment for having made incisions in the body of the child.

Hi Howard

Before you rush to judgement that this was a crime of a Jew against a Christian rather than a run-of-the-mill pervert against a victim, how about all the crimes by Christian white guys such as, mmmmm, Dennis Rader (BTK), Gary Leon Ridgway (the Green River Killer), and John Wayne Gacy, etc.? :rolleyes:

Chris

[How Brown]

Before you rush to judgement that this was a crime of a Jew against a Christian rather than a run-of-the-mill pervert against a victim, how about all the crimes by Christian white guys such as, mmmmm, Dennis Rader (BTK), Gary Leon Ridgway (the Green River Killer), and John Wayne Gacy, etc.? -C.G

Unless I am mistaken,C.G...none of the victims of the scumbags you mentioned killed any people who happened to be Jewish. I also don't "think" a man who happened to be Jewish was Jack The Ripper.

The point I was trying to make was that it IS possible that someone who happened to adhere to the concept that "others" are "fair game" might enact upon that. That of course would include a member of any "group".

[Chris G.]

Hi Howard

No, just as I do, I don't think you necessarily think the Ripper was a Jew. Now that rhymes, so it must be true (that the Whitechapel murderer was no Jew). :kiss:

I think part of the point that I am making is that in discussing these cases, the Ritter case and the Max Bernstein case, we don't want to pick up on the anti-semitic bigotry of the nineteenth century in which the reporters made sure that the readers knew that the crimes were committed by a Jew on a Christian.

The 1970's killer, the Son of Sam, David Berkowitz, of course was also Jewish, but by the time his crime spree occurred and he was arrested, the times had changed. Reporters knew better than to emphasize that these were crimes by a Jew on Christians or to imply the crimes had a racial motivation.

All the best

Chris

[How Brown]

Its funny you mention Berkowitz. Some newspapers in New York at the time mentioned that he was NOT Jewish ( but Italian ) and pointed out that he had been adopted. In fact, one philo-Semitic website does much the same by claiming Berky wasn't Jewish either. Not that it matters of course,but its funny that an effort was taken indicate Berkowitz wasn't a Jewish man.

Likewise,in Philly, a Jewish man named Savitz, related to a local Philly bigwig, had the repulsive hobby of sniffing boy's underwear and performing coprophagic acts after buying a group of Greys Ferry ( near the docks, its a neighborhood on the East side of Philly) teens pizza and more undies. He was arrested and put away after exposing the youths to his AIDS. Anyway, the media could not mention this alarming story at the time without pointing out ..."Savitz,the Bishop Neumann H.S. graduate.." It almost became an appendage to his name simply because they wanted to avoid mentioning his origins and always mentioned the Catholic High School he attended 40 years before. Stuff like that simply doesn't happen without a reason. I'm not saying that a W.A.S.P. family back in 1930 couldn't or wouldn't pull a stunt like that for one of their own, but thats what happened here.

I agree with you,C.G...that there were preconcieved notions that a foreigner or Jew committed the Ripper murders...even before the Leather Apron scare. I don't let that sort of thinking influence me. Some of the most sympathetic and significant characters to me ( Samuel Montagu, Dr. Barnardo ) were Jews and of course, the bulk of the MEVC, whose interests in keeping their businesses open as well as putting an end to the murders have added a lot to the Case.

Mazel tov ! L' Chaim !

[Pilgrim]

"The Semites are often considered the worst offenders in the matter of human sacrifice, but in this, according to classical evidence, they were closely rivalled by the Celts of Gaul. They offered human victims on the principle of a life for a life, or to propitiate the gods, or in order to divine the future from the entrails of the victim." J. A. MacCulloch, The Religion of the Ancient Celts (1911) (http://fortunaty.net/com/sacred-texts/neu/celt/rac/)

"To set down the Dream of realities, with the unformulated hovering above them, to dissect them mercilessly so as to see into their Soul, to pursue the intangible with all one's might and to meditate - in silence - so as to record its Mysterious significance." La Wallonie (http://www.arllfb.be/publications/bibliographies/wallonie.html)(1890).

~~~

Khnopff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernand_Khnopff)/Péladan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9phin_P%C3%A9ladan) -Ishtar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar) (1888) -

[Von Schwantz]

Its funny you mention Berkowitz. Some newspapers in New York at the time mentioned that he was NOT Jewish ( but Italian ) and pointed out that he had been adopted.... Not that it matters of course,but its funny that an effort was taken indicate Berkowitz wasn't a Jewish man.
A few years ago, an attempt was made in the newspaper to point out that he converted to Christianity, as if it had a retroactive effect on him.
Berkowitz birth mother was a Jew married to an Italian. She had an affair with a Jew and then he was adopted out to a Jewish family.
Very few Italians would even think to use the kinds of signatures Son of Sam used. Not that they wouldn't shoot people in vehicles though.
The crime's the same no matter how you look at it. Is the motivation any different because of the signature?

[How Brown]

Not that they ( Italians) wouldn't shoot people in vehicles though...VS

Mamma Mia ! Be careful Schwantzie ! Maria Giordano is around here and she's connected.

Good point about there being no difference who dunnit.

I'll say this...the Ripper couldn't have been a Hungarian,because a Hunky couldn't find a prostitute in a 5 story brothel with his money stapled on his forehead, much less on the street.

I kid I kid....yeah,one could.

[Von Schwantz]

They're too busy looking for young innocent Tryoleans like myself. They lure me with promises of movie deals, goulash and Transylvannian soup.
If you find me in a barrel rolled into the river, you know it was one of them but don't buy into any occult theory.

Hungarian SKs, Elizabeth Bathory and Bela Kiss, who both advertised for victims, were alleged occultists but I don't know of any occult motive. Kiss did it for the money and Bathory taking a bath in blood is considered only legend.

[Paul]

Except goblins and leprechauns and most Welsh. They're fair game.

Take care, you know not with what you deal!

[Pilgrim]

Hungarian SKs, Elizabeth Bathory and Bela Kiss, who both advertised for victims, were alleged occultists but I don't know of any occult motive. Kiss did it for the money and Bathory taking a bath in blood is considered only legend.The fact that Bela Kiss did defraud his victims of their life savings does not in itself prove that money was any more important to him than whatever other phase or part of his "operation". I would say an alleged or suggested interest in "occultism" on the part of any psychopath would be indicative of the externalization of blame, as it might superficially seem to support the claim that "destiny" is ruled by "occult forces". "Occultist practices" would be a mere symptom. I'd say it would seem likely that any major interest on the part of a serial murderer would, in the final resort, tend to be a symptom of what might perhaps be the most obvious and still most "occulted" motive - that of vicarious victimization in itself. And that is also where "religious fervour" could come to play a part.

Some more recent studies have examined positive as well as negative emotion using pictures drawn from the International Affective Picture System (IAPS; Center for the Study of Emotion and Attention, 1999). The basis for psychopathy group assignments in this more recent work has been Hare’s (1991) Psychopathy Checklist—Revised (PCL–R), which has emerged as the diagnostic standard in this area of research. In one study, Patrick et al. (1993) reported a deviant quadratic startle response pattern in PCL–R-defined psychopathic subjects, with blinks inhibited during both pleasant and unpleasant pictures compared with neutral pictures—implying an absence of normal defensive (fear) reactivity. In a follow-up study, Levenston et al. (2000) replicated this basic finding and further established that divergence in response was greatest for vicarious victim scenes (cf. Blair, Jones, Clark, & Smith, 1997): For scenes of this type, nonpsychopathic subjects evidenced significant startle potentiation, whereas psychopathic subjects showed significant blink inhibition.

~~~

Occulted, a.

1. Hidden; secret. [Obs.]

2. (Astron.) Concealed by the intervention of some other heavenly body.

[How Brown]

Whoops ! Unwise move on my part to mention the Welsh...I meant gremlins.:kiss:

The Welsh,however, are known for gingerly removing the quarter one gets under his or her pillow from the Tooth Fairy, who most certainly is a Hull native. Anyone else, such as a gremlin,twinkie,brownie,or Tyrolean would leave a dollar.

[Sam Flynn]

Whoops ! Unwise move on my part to mention the Welsh...I meant gremlinsCareful, How. Milords Begg and Hinton have been known to sport beards, you know. Welsh Wizards, and all that...

I gave up growing a beard because it was ginger, which clashed somewhat with my black curly hair. I looked like an upside-down negative of Malcolm X.

[Robert Linford]

Actually, Gareth, I think Bob Hinton is English.

Your beard remarks remind me of a story about Harry Secombe. He used to do an act involving shaving. One night after the show he wiped the soap off his face with a towel, left the theatre and went to stand in a bus queue. Suddenly it started to rain, and his face began to lather up....

[Sam Flynn]

Actually, Gareth, I think Bob Hinton is English.Is he? Whatever, he lives in Kidwelly so his beard is tinted by association.

[Von Schwantz]

Rader did have a competitive streak with Berkowitz which came out in the letters.
....the Tooth Fairy, who most certainly is a Hull native. Anyone else, such as a gremlin,twinkie,brownie,or Tyrolean would leave a dollar.
A Looney actually.
I hope to dispel the rumour that the Dolomites are painted white with moonbeams sent by moonmen. They actually are made of children's milk teeth that I collect around the world.
I avoid Wales in my rounds ever since I saw Red Dragon with Anthony Hopkins and the Tooth Fairy.

[Big Jon]

Careful, How. Milords Begg and Hinton have been known to sport beards, you know. Welsh Wizards, and all that...



I also wear a beard on my chin.

One more word about the Welsh from How and he gets a sheep thrown at him!

[Robert Linford]

Well of course, Prince Charles is Prince of Wales and he's keen on the environment.

Hence the new film, "How Green Was My Valet?"

[Mike Covell]

I shaved mine off yesterday and feel quite light headed! Someone (meaning the wife) had used all my shaving foam so it was a cold shave with the sharpest of razors. My wife didn't even noticed I looked different!

So I ate her liver with a nise......:nono:

[Sam Flynn]

I also wear a beard on my chin....best place for them, I've found :)

[Big Jon]

...best place for them, I've found :)

Yeah, I tried growing one on my knee but then I got funny looks when I wore shorts.