5 Questions with STRING

[How Brown]

Many thanks to Forums supporter,member,and all around good guy, String, for his help and responses.:high5:

1. Is there are particular phase of Ripperological history that holds more fascination for you ? For example, does the period "after WW2 up to McCormick" interest you as might the "Centennial year up to JTR Forums" ? Please elaborate if you wish.

I think now is the best time.
We have the message boards throwing up new stuff all the time.
The podcast is a great way for newcomers to the case to get a quick insight to current thinking.
There also must be a new TV documentary every year.
The movies whilst being frustrating as far as the facts are concerned do draw more people into the case.
The main thing we have now is the internet of course. This allows the exchange of views and ideas that keep the case alive and without it I think interest in it would eventually wither away.

2. Do you see message boards and magazines being the best method for disseminating Ripper based information or do you see books as being the better of both worlds ?

Message boards are a great way of discussing the various aspects of the case but unfortunately sometimes degenerate into a slanging match. Saying that I myself have learned a great deal from jtr forums and casebook. For example I was convinced the GSG was just that a piece of graffiti but on reading some of the recent posts on the subject on this forum I'm not so sure. There are some excellent arguments being put forward in it's favour of being a message from the killer.
The message boards are also a quick and easy way of checking facts, just ask a question. They are a lively place of very mixed views which is always good.
Books are useful too but I think due to the pressures of some publishers to sell copies authors may come under pressure to 'solve' the crime. This skews a book and as was the case with Stephen Knights book can result in some rather outlandish ideas.
I really only stick to factual books these days I think I was put off by the Patricia Cornwell book which I couldn't actually finish, the leaps of imagination needed were too great from me, and I read science fiction.


3. As you began your long and agonizing road to ruin as a Ripperologist...which book did you begin with...and if you could "do it all over again"...would you have chosen that particular book, even if the original book was a good starting point ?

I started with a book by Colin WIlson Jack the Ripper: Summing Up and Verdict (with Robin Odell, 1987). I picked it up almost at random in a library and was at once fascinated. The author painted a very stark picture of 1880's London. His very detailed descriptions of the crimes actually horrified me but he also painted a picture of mystery surrounding the crimes. Looking back on it it wasn't a good 'text' book about the ripper but it pulled me into the case. I think I would have still started with that book given the choice.
I really think a good text book like The complete history of jack the ripper by
Philip Sugden is the best place to start as it lays out the facts in a clear manner. Although there's nothing wrong with a good thriller.


4. In Ireland...are there any comparable cases to the WM...or is the WM studied in general more than Irish cases of murder or other crimes ?

Not that I'm aware of, certainly in the North where I live.
There was a famous murder committed not far from where I live that has never been satisfactory solved, namely the Curran murder:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/li...-13493858.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/part-two-murder-mystery-coverup-13493858.html)
It's only like the ripper case in that there is not much evidence and we will probably never know the truth. Most people I know believe the old Judge did it himself and there was a cover up.

5. Which sources do you recommend for the cadre here in terms of research tools..those which are already known and any which few are aware of that you can think of ?

Libraries always good, and free. I just hate buying books and finding them absolute stinkers. Try before you buy.

Old newspapers, I have to get into the town myself and search through old copies of the Belfast Telegraph and News Letter. Most reports will be syndicated but you might find the odd report or commentary wrote at the time which might shed some light on the case. Being far away from the 'action' might be both an advantage and disadvantage, advantage being that reporters will be more free to discuss the various parties involved in the case and of course the disadvantage of distance being the lack of interest from reporters and public.

The internet, probably the easiest and cheapest to access. The release of records onto the internet such as census data, I'm sure makes the life of the researcher much more easy. The only problem with this is for book writers that if you can see it others can so getting that scoop would be more difficult.

[How Brown]

Please ask String questions relative to the thread only.

Thank you.

[Nemo]

Good answers String

I too think the current era is the best for students due to the accessibility of information

The podcast, Ripperologist and the message boards are all superb research tools

Research tools I recommend to have at home are the Ultimate JtR Source book and JtR Letters from Hell - both by Evans and Skinner

On top of that you would need an encyclopaedic reference - not necessarily the A-Z but it is a useful book nevertheless

Not being able to possess every newspaper article - any book dealing with the English and/or Irish press reports would be recommended - allied to published reports such as those on Casebook

I would like to ask String if he remembers the Shankhill butchers and whether he thinks anything from the case might have some bearing in the Ripper case?

These were sectarian murderers, operating in a gang, who expressed extreme cruelty and sadism, often mutilating their victims.

I think it at least shows how one or more killers can work together in extremely gruesome crimes, especially if they have a common cause - sectarian hatred and possibly political leanings

[Sam Flynn]

Good answers, String. Have a question in return!I was convinced the GSG was just that a piece of graffiti but on reading some of the recent posts on the subject on this forum I'm not so sure. There are some excellent arguments being put forward in it's favour of being a message from the killer...

I was put off by the Patricia Cornwell book which I couldn't actually finish, the leaps of imagination needed were too great from me.Do you think that significant leaps of imagination are also required by some theories that attempt to "nail" the authorship of the GSG on Jack?

[How Brown]

String:

Is it even required that a "significant leap of imagination" is necessary, in your view, to give the message on Goulston Street its due?

Take that Sammy:boxing:

[String]

Good answers, String. Have a question in return!Do you think that significant leaps of imagination are also required by some theories that attempt to "nail" the authorship of the GSG on Jack?

The main leap was, What the hell was he doing?
He had killed a woman was standing next to evidence and he was taking time to write in neat and small letters trying to blame Jews. The sentence was overly wrong for the message it was delivering.
"THE JEWS KILLED THEM!" would have been much better.
Anyone would have being either getting the hell out of the place or going to ground. I just find it hard to believe he would do that.
Another few problems. As Alley on the podcast said why not write the message next to the victim eg "A Jew did this". It would take 3 seconds.
Another thing he had the apron, why not write on it?
I know it was white and chalk is white but the apron was filthy and I'm sure it could be wrote upon.
The message itself didn't refer to women, killings or anything to do with them. It's just the fact the apron was found nearby that links them.

If the apron was found a few metres away the message probably would not have been seen and we wouldn't be talking about it. I'm sure Howard could persuade us otherwise though :).

[How Brown]

If the apron was found a few metres away the message probably would not have been seen and we wouldn't be talking about it. I'm sure Howard could persuade us otherwise though-String

There are many possibilities for him not placing the message near a murder site,buddy. You and I could sit here for weeks and bounce ideas back and forth off of each other...but since we are not of the same ilk as the Ripper, each reason is as equally valid as the next.

John Malcolm, for example, feels that the GSG being placed where it was, may well have been for maximum effect. Carrying that idea a little further on my end, if what John posits could be considered valid, then I would think that the message was not left for the police,but perhaps for those who would be embarking on vending or purchasing goods on Goulston Street.

We both know that the apron was found in another jurisdiction of the East End and not where the victim was killed. Taking the apron to another jurisdiction...in the warped mind of the Ripper...may have been an act of publicising his murder of Eddowes and possibly that of Stride as well.

Yet, this is all conjecture and obviously impossible to prove and for some,impossible to accept. Thats perfectly normal. No one who doesn't believe in the provenance of the GSG is thinking "improperly" as those who accept it as being a clue are oblivious to the arguments against it.

My primary, as of this point in time, belief in the message emanating from the Ripper is the way that Halse describes its physical appearance. Thats all. I have absolutely no idea as to what the 12 words means in the context of being a clue and probably never will. Could it mean that on that specific night, the Ripper felt it worthwhile to leave more than just two destroyed women on the street? Perhaps. Could it mean that on that specific night that the Ripper wanted to exacerbate the tensions already on the front burner in the East End with a message ,which if concievable, would make an already easy to manipulate public even more pliable to the belief that a person who happened to be Jewish was responsible for the crimes? Possibly.

Back to you folks...

[Sam Flynn]

String:

Is it even required that a "significant leap of imagination" is necessary, in your view, to give the message on Goulston Street its due?

Take that Sammy :boxing:
I was referring specifically to some of the sometimes convoluted theories that tie the GSG to the Ripper. Of course, we can just accept that because it was on the wall of the alcove in which the apron was dropped, it "must" somehow have been authored by him - but that would be a leap of faith, rather than a leap of imagination, wouldn't it?

Take that Mishter Brown :boxing: ;)

[String]

I would like to ask String if he remembers the Shankhill butchers and whether he thinks anything from the case might have some bearing in the Ripper case?

These were sectarian murderers, operating in a gang, who expressed extreme cruelty and sadism, often mutilating their victims.

I think it at least shows how one or more killers can work together in extremely gruesome crimes, especially if they have a common cause - sectarian hatred and possibly political leanings

Oh yes we remember them well but people should not be under the illusion they did this in the name of some political cause, that was an excuse.

The gangs, and that's really just what they were, were criminal gangs. They ran drugs, guns and every racket you could think of. They extorted money from their own communities and used a flag of connivence as an 'excuse' for their activities. And of course used violence or the threat to get their way.
I am of the opinion that it was bravado and of course wickedness that lead to these crimes. There is a lot of bravado in the gang culture, the most bravest and wickedest usually rises to the top. When the head man is a evil b*******d the rest follow and they feed of each other. The killings get more brutal each time as each member tries to outdo the last. Human nature.

I always thought that children are probably the most wickedest section of human society. They do things to other children and animals just out of malice, there does not have to be a reason. Some adults do this too but most grow out of it. If you watch the bullying in the school playground of a poor be-spectacled child you can see the children trying to outdo each other in their taunts all overseen by the bully. Gang culture I think is just an extension of this. It's better to be part of the gang and hammering someone than not and being hammered.

[How Brown]

I always thought that children are probably the most wickedest section of human society- String

Invariably,they do their wicked deeds for the immediate gain or benefit of what their wickedness does for them without cognizance of what the victim feels like...while adults do so for the same reasons but in possession of the skills not to and a cognizance of what the victims feel like,since they feed off that awareness.. I agree with you String...as much as I treasure children, they may well be what you state they are in this instance.

[String]

Could it mean that on that specific night that the Ripper wanted to exacerbate the tensions already on the front burner in the East End with a message ,which if concievable, would make an already easy to manipulate public even more pliable to the belief that a person who happened to be Jewish was responsible for the crimes? Possibly.
Back to you folks...

But this would be counterproductive.
If I was a gentile killing people and trying to get Jews blamed I wouldn't write it's a Jew doing it because then people would know it wouldn't be a Jewish murderer. After all if the killer wrote it and he blames Jews then he's not a Jew. Unless he's a clever Jew of course.
Another thing if he was so inclined to get the Jews blamed why not leave some incriminating evidence which could only have came from a Jew?

BTW was there ever any reason to suspect any of the police of writing the message?

[Nemo]

Thanks for the answer in regard to the Shankhill butchers String

When an accomplice to the Ripper is considered, I often see the point raised of why would a second person aid the Ripper etc

Gang mentality to which you refer tells us that it is at least possible for a second man or more to be involved in the crimes with no tie except loyalty to each other

I would read the GSG as implying that the Ripper does not care if the murders are blamed on the Jews or not

He was only referring to the efforts of the police and press to point the direction of accusation away from the Jews so as to prevent rioting

The message would be to the populace that - even though it was him doing the killing (as a Gentile) - the Jews would not be blamed for the WM or anything else for that matter - a policy of appeasement

I think there is a good possibility that the Ripper was anti-semitic and possibly attacked the C5 because of their association with Jewish clients

[String]

When an accomplice to the Ripper is considered, I often see the point raised of why would a second person aid the Ripper etc

Gang mentality to which you refer tells us that it is at least possible for a second man or more to be involved in the crimes with no tie except loyalty to each other



I was always open to the theory of an accomplice but for me he just acted as a lookout. No evidence of course but the killer did do some nasty work in the street and when bent down anyone could have walked up behind him.

[How Brown]

Dear String:

But this would be counterproductive.
If I was a gentile killing people and trying to get Jews blamed I wouldn't write it's a Jew doing it because then people would know it wouldn't be a Jewish murderer.

Thats you...and me,String. Consider the risks taken ( i.e., why not coerce the women to more secluded spots first?) and then consider that we're dealing with a person or persons who are on a different wave length in the first place.

After all if the killer wrote it and he blames Jews then he's not a Jew. Unless he's a clever Jew of course.

Let me simply mention that in the early 1980's, FBI statistics demonstrated that 50 percent of all anti-Semitic acts of vandalism ( synagogues & cemeteries in particular) which occurred in the United States were acts perpetrated by Jews themselves. As to how that can apply to this Case, I don't know. Yet,its worth considering at some point in our studies that a "logical" and not illiogical motivation for blaming Jews may have been present on Goulston Street. Logical in the sense that it was logical to the perpetrator,not necessarily you,Nemo,Big Jon,or me.

Another thing if he was so inclined to get the Jews blamed why not leave some incriminating evidence which could only have came from a Jew?

As in what,String? Not to be facetious, but by "only came from a Jew", do you mean a yarmulkah or an artifact associated with Jewry?

BTW was there ever any reason to suspect any of the police of writing the message?

That was mentioned here on The Forums last week...but other than that, I haven't seen any contemporaneous references to that being a consideration.

[String]

As in what,String? Not to be facetious, but by "only came from a Jew", do you mean a yarmulkah or an artifact associated with Jewry?



Yes that's the sort of thing. I know it's clumsy but this was a different age. If someone found the body and a yarmulkah was found close by the word would get round very quick and a few house's/shops would be burnt out.

Do you think he set out to write the message or just found the chalk and did it on the spare of the moment?

[How Brown]

String;

If someone found the body and a yarmulkah was found close by the word would get round very quick and a few house's/shops would be burnt out.

I suppose that that scenario could have set off some trouble,buddy.

Do you think he set out to write the message or just found the chalk and did it on the spur of the moment?

Not a clue,String...I've got no idea. I'd assume that had he gone out with the intention of killing just one woman...the Mitre Square murder might have never occurred. Ditto the GSG. I'd say he came across some chalk and spontaneously came up with the idea as a result of the decision to continue after Berner Street. No way of proving that of course buddy...but as good an answer as I can give you now.

Back to asking you a question, my friend:


"The movies whilst being frustrating as far as the facts are concerned do draw more people into the case."-String.

Please name a couple of films or documentaries that do just that,old bean.

Thanks...

[How Brown]

String:

Sorry to amend a previous comment here on your thread.....

I'd assume that had he gone out with the intention of killing just one woman...the Mitre Square murder might have never occurred. Ditto the GSG.-HB

What didn't show up in that post is the possibility that since the Berner Street murder was possibly interrupted, he then felt compelled to find one more victim to do what he intended to do in the first place. No one knows if he intended to perform a true double event on September 29th. My mistake.

[Caroline Morris]

The main leap was, What the hell was he doing?
He had killed a woman was standing next to evidence and he was taking time to write in neat and small letters trying to blame Jews. The sentence was overly wrong for the message it was delivering.
"THE JEWS KILLED THEM!" would have been much better…

Hi String,

How would that have more effectively put the blame on a Jew? It would have come across as no more than the uninformed opinion of a bigot defacing a building housing Jews.



...As Alley on the podcast said why not write the message next to the victim eg "A Jew did this". It would take 3 seconds.

Hmmm - very subtle and smart. And the average copper would take all of 2 seconds to conclude a Jew didn’t do this. Not very bright of the killer unless he was a Jew, taking time out from whipping out a kidney and doodling on a face to play a double bluff at the scene - and then stoopidly dropping the bloody apron in the entrance to a building housing Jews, presumably as a double double bluff. Correction - it would not have been very bright of a Jewish killer either.

Love,

Caz
X

[String]

Hi Caroline you're right anyone with a bit of sense would know it was just a bigot, but I think this was aimed at another audience.
The local mob would just point to it and say "We told you it was a Jew". That's why the original was deleted so quickly.
Besides it wasn't done by the killer and the graffiti was just that, swayed back into the graffiti camp again. :)

[String]

String;
"The movies whilst being frustrating as far as the facts are concerned do draw more people into the case."-String.

Please name a couple of films or documentaries that do just that,old bean.

Thanks...

The recent From Hell movie would have drawn some younger people to the case, at least the made them aware, because Johnny Depp was in it. Although it had the Psychic cop Abberline which was ridiculous I enjoyed the movie. The sets and clothes etc were pretty good.

I think the Michael Caine tv series did more for publicising the case than any other thing and I hope they run it again. Again the Royal connection but there you go, tv companies and movie makers want the most dramatic story to get the numbers.

It would be nice to see a tv series based on the murders but maybe using some of the main suspects as the killer in each show. For example Druitt could be the murderer in the first show, maybe Tumbelty in the second etc. They could show the suspects life, as we know it, show how they could have did it, and let us make up our minds at the end of the series. A bit like a whodunit.

[Mike Covell]

It would be nice to see a tv series based on the murders but maybe using some of the main suspects as the killer in each show. For example Druitt could be the murderer in the first show, maybe Tumbelty in the second etc. They could show the suspects life, as we know it, show how they could have did it, and let us make up our minds at the end of the series. A bit like a whodunit.

I like this idea, kind of an open end made for TV movie, suggesting all the killers, but when it comes out on the obligatory DVD, it has a chapter select that lets you frame your suspect of choice!

String, if I might be so bold to ask you a question, are there any authors/ripperologists associated with the case, past or present that have inspired you to become involved?

[String]

I think the ripperologist I think inspired me was Paul Begg I had read a few of his books, The a to z and The Facts book and was impressed by his unbiased approach to the case. He also presents the facts in a clear manner.
I've heard him on the podcasts too and am impressed by his down to earth/common sense attitude and ability to listen to others views.

(On the tv series)Say we had a thirteen part series we could have twelve suspects and a final show unmasking the killer, with an esteemed panel, perhaps including the fellow above would pick with maybe an audience vote? But which twelve suspects?
Was something like this not done before?

Anyway Mike which chapters would you skip? :)

[Nemo]

I have seen the documentary thingy hosted by Peter Ustinov - panel of experts/FBI etc + an audience vote on three main suspects if I remember correctly

[Mike Covell]

Anyway Mike which chapters would you skip? :)

I have to agree with you on Begg. I was quite ill when I purchased "The Facts" and it occupied my time when I was a guinea pig for the NHS! Waiting rooms and hospital wards seem so much brighter when your reading this book! I also took "Black Magic Rituals" with me on several hospital visits!

If I had something of this sort on DVD, I would watch it twelve times with the different suspect each time, just for a jolly! I like to watch movies four or five times, at least once with the commenteries, more if there are more commenteries.

Nemo is correct in that Peter Ustinov hosted a JTR documentary, where suspects were eliminated. There was a small section on Stephenson, surrounded by candles!

[String]

I have seen the documentary thingy hosted by Peter Ustinov - panel of experts/FBI etc + an audience vote on three main suspects if I remember correctly

That's the one I must have seen. Thanks Nemo.