Arsenic & Old Pimples

[How Brown]

Quick in and out question or two here...

1. Is there any known reference to Tumblety and his possible use of arsenic?

2. Since arsenic was used as a form of adding lustre to a person's face....is it possible that Tumblety's Pimple Banisher had arsenic in it?

[ferret]

Great title there How- will think about the answers but ...........can't get the 'Lace Knicks and Old Arse' image out of my mind!!!

I'll be back!!:kiss:

[Ultra Violet]

How, I can't say much about Tumblety here, but your question reminded me of advertisments for "harmless arsenic wafers", that were recommended for problems with the skin. I found two sites that refer to this particular "medication":

From a 1895 advertisment in "Home Notes"
"the most lovely complexion that the imagination could desire; clear. fresh, free from blotch, blemish, coarseness, redness, freckles or pimples."
Here the site (the part about the arsenic about 3/4 down the page)

http://www.victorianpage.com/LadiesPage-cosmetics.html

Here's an article in the NY Times, April 10, 1887

"The wafers are harmless,act rapidly, and will make the dirtiest, sallowest complexion clear in a few weeks. As for pimples, one or two boxes of the wafers are usually enough to smooth them away."

On that site you find the full article as pdf

New York Times (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9507EFDA1630E633A25753C1A9629C94 669FD7CF)

Now that's a recommendation! :D

[How Brown]

Dear Suzi & Helga:

Thanks for the replies !

I am aware of Tumblety's expressed position on the use of arsenic ( Its been mentioned in passing somewhere at sometime, but I can't remember exactly where outside of newspaper archives...) and that he frowned on its use. I've seen that mentioned in a newspaper that either Nina or someone else provided..and will go look for it.

But,considering his penchant for prevarication, I thought that perhaps one reason for the impression people had regarding his skin ( usually in glowing terms) and his assumed chronological age ( usually being years younger than what his age really was ) and that had he used it, not saying that he did, but had he used it, it might have been used in the way people use amyl nitrate or "poppers" or even in the way Maybrick is said to have used it...for some sort of sexual stimuli. Without Viagra, the men back in the LVP used arsenic as a stimuli.

It was just a thought and nothing really major in the scheme of things,ladies..

[Joe Chetcuti]

A Montreal chemist, Mr. Birks, examined the medication that Tumblety gave to the prostitute Philomene Dumas. Birks testified during the Montreal court proceedings in 1857. He said:

"I have also very carefully examined three pills and I found that they were composed of cayenne pepper, aloe, savin oil, and cantharides."

Savin oil is a very deadly poison, and it has been illegal to manufacture this oil for over 100 years. In the 19th century, women would take cayenne pepper to induce an abortion.

But apparently it is more dangerous for a man to ingest savin oil, than it is for a woman. Please click into the web link below and scroll down to where in says "Savin Juniper."

http://www.zielarze.pl/poisons.htm (http://www.zielarze.pl/poisons.htm)

When determining how James Portmore died, I'd consider the ingestion of savin oil before I'd consider arsenic.

[Ultra Violet]

:shocked: Portmore suffered from kidney problems to begin with! Savin oil would cause blood congestion in the kidneys. And I think I read somewhere that Portmore's stomach became inflamed after a few days of "treatment" which is another symptom of savin poisoning.

[Tim Riordan]

Hi all,

Montreal is one of those rare cases where we can actually see what was in Tumblety's medicine. The chemist Binks did testify as Joe has said. However, Tumblety’s attorney discredited his testimony, with no rebuttal from the prosecution. He then put Kenneth Campbell, who made the pills for Tumblety, on the stand. His testimony was that the pills did not contain either savin or cantharides but were composed mostly of aloes, with smaller amounts of steel cast soap, gamboges, colocynth, gentian, mandrake, capsicum, and oil of peppermint. All of those are standard herbal remedies and not reported to be harmful in any way. An official investigation, paid for by the Quebec government, analyzed the pills and found no harmful minerals, acids or metals. Just to be sure, the chemist took some of the medicine himself and reported no ill effects. Nor did he say that the medicine was likely to cause an abortion.

Best,

Tim

[Joe Chetcuti]

Hello Ultra Violet,

You remember correctly.

Dr. Humphery and Dr. Botsford performed a post mortem exam on James Portmore. They both "swore positively that the immediate cause of death was acute inflammation of the stomach." They added that this condition did not arise from Portmore's kidney problems.

The two doctors also stated that "according to the highest medical authorities, inflammation of the stomach (rarely arises from natural causes) but is the result of the introduction of some powerful irritant into the stomach."

[Nemo]

I'd suggest it was the cantharides - fatal in small doses (see Arthur Kendrick Ford) - corrosive really, but classed as an irritant

Mandrake is extremely poisonous also

[Simon Wood]

Hi Nemo,

If it was cantharides [Spanish Fly] they wouldn't have been able to nail down the lid on Portmore's coffin.

Regards,

Simon

[Archaic]

If it was cantharides [Spanish Fly] they wouldn't have been able to nail down the lid on Portmore's coffin.


*Would some one please supply a suitable Photograph?

Simon just won the Caption Contest!

By the way, Simon... What's the definition of a 'Fly Girl'?

Just curious. Archaic