Divination by Entrails! 'Hepatomancy'

[Archaic]

Hi, kids! Tired of Reflexology, Astrology & Magic 8-Balls? Try Hepatomancy, the Ancient Art of Divination based upon the close examination of the entrails of sacrificial animals!

The basic premise is that the Liver is the "seat" or "origin" of the blood, and by skilfully analyzing it one can interpret the Will of the Gods. It's also called 'Hepatoscopy', 'Haruspicy' & 'Extispicy'. (Weird- that last one sounds like a pay-per-view porn channel!)
A practitioner is called a 'Haruspex'.

You might want to give it a whirl... after all, it worked for the Babylonians, the Etruscans & the Romans. Besides, animal livers are so much easier to locate than D'Onston's "fresh uterus of prostitute".
I had no idea that there were actually ancient "liver-divination charts" very much like today's Palmistry charts, but made of clay or bronze. Some cool ones are pictured in the links.

Links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haruspex

http://traumwerk.stanford.edu/archaeolog/2007/09/reading_livers_through_reading_1.html

For all different kinds of Divination, A-Z: http://www.skepdic.com/divinati.html

*check out Uromancy in this last one- divination by urinating in a pot & interpreting the bubbles! (I thought guys do that all the time?? :rolleyes:)

Have fun, Archaic PS: Please buy your experimental entrails at your friendly neighborhood grocery store. Thanks!

[admin tim]

Howard always wanted to try this out, back when he was chasing D'Onston's black magic rituals, but he never had the guts.

[Archaic]

Tim, I suspected that either you or Nemo would find this thread first!

Something occurred to me a little while ago- in some cultures, such as that of Japan, the Liver was seen as the "seat of Intention." That's why when a Japanese man commits Har-Kari he very deliberately & ceremoniously excises his own liver... it is done as a ritual to shame the person who humiliated him in the first place by somehow impugning his honor & his 'pure' intentions.
The one who offended him is supposed to watch & feel horrible & of course realize that he is wrong- but it's too late, because the noble Hari Kari guy is dead!
But his honor is restored, which is what counts, and he has successfully shamed his enemy back in a way that's hard to top.

My Dad actually got a Japanese Officer's Hari-Kari sword (knife?) in WWII... he either found it or someone gave it to him in the Pacific near Okinawa; I don't think it was ever used. It's surprisingly slender & fine; shiny silver with a matching sheath & a small tassel of colored silk thread.

Hopefully we have no affairs of honor to settle around here! :fencing: Archaic

[Robert Linford]

Hi Archaic

Interesting what you say about hara-kiri. I always thought that it was resorted to when the person concerned felt shame and needed to atone - not when he felt himself blameless.

Does that mean that in Japan, if you wanted someone out of the way, all you had to do was impugn his honour?:confused:

[Nemo]

Hi Archaic

I've always been fascinated by the multitude of methods tried in forecasting the future

Various animals and birds usually supply the entrails for reading

Early Celtic culture (Druidic) is said to have advocated reading human entrails - together with the collection and preservation of their enemies heads and the eating of their hearts and possibly the rest of the flesh also, the usually fearless Romans thought them truly terrifying opponents

[Mike Covell]

I have a book devoted to the A-Z of Divination which features some weird and wonderful methods, my fave being watching water (hydromancy) swirl down a plug hole!

You might think that it's an obscure method, but divination by water is quite popular.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydromancy

[Howard Brown]

That creepy little American author Norman Mailer once commented that he could tell the nature and character of a man by investigating his bowel movements.

Mailer was the little bat-eared momser who criticized the Space Program in the US, considering the money spent on space flight could be used better to feed the Irresponsible Class of welfare-breeders here.

[Archaic]

I have a book devoted to the A-Z of Divination which features some weird and wonderful methods, my fave being watching water (hydromancy) swirl down a plug hole!

Mike, I thought you & Howie would go for UROMANCY- the most personal & economical form of Hydromancy!
On the other hand, I sorta expect Nemo to go out there & throw a few entrails around, just for jolly.

Robert, I wrote a paper on Hari-Kari when I was in college. It was for an International Studies course on Weltanshaaung; ie: "World View" as one's paradigmatic reality. An absolutely fascinating class which investigated the clash of entrenched ethnocentric perspectives throughout history. 'World Views' are so ingrained that they often diverge wildly without the realization of the participants. (A phenomenon I often observe today in online forums, lol! :) )

For instance, when the British went into China in the 1700's with the intention of civilizing the heathen & exploiting the lucrative Tea Trade, they brought their spectacular Navy & masses of fancy presents intended to impress the Chinese with British cultural superiority: items like fine state-of-the-art clocks were offered as gifts to the Emperor. But the Chinese were an ancient & sophisticated culture in their own right, to whom clocks & many other inventions were old hat. In addition, their Emperor was a semi-divine figure known as "The Son of Heaven". Being sophisticated & sensible people, they accepted the British gifts in the serene belief that they were being offered as tribute from an inferior culture to a superior one!

Such a possibility had never even occurred to the British, and it was quite a while before they figured it out. (Like 150 years by some estimates)


I wrote the Hari-Kari piece from memory; I'm sure you can find a much more in-depth treatment of it online. I'm not by any means an expert on Japanese culture; I just find it fascinating that we Westerners have always ridiculed Japanese practitioners of Hari-Kari as 'dead-enders' & 'quitters,' whereas their own view of it is entirely different: they are not only behavaing courageously, "saving face" & restoring their impugned honor, but literally destroying the honor & status of their foe by their own noble example.

Ain't Weltanshaaung fun?
Even more fun than Hepatoscopy, if you axe me!
Archaic

[Robert Linford]

Archaic, I think there's another Japanese custom where if they feel they've wronged someone, they cut off their little finger and give it to them. There was a film once where Robert Mitchum did this in Japan.

[Archaic]

Thanks for the 'heads up'- I'll never complain about my sushi again.

Archaic