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View Full Version : A night out with Pearly Poll


A.P. Wolf
12-31-2009, 01:36 PM
I just love this to distraction:

MARY CONELLY, Violent Theft > robbery, 9th January 1882.


Reference Number: t18820109-198
Offence: Violent Theft (http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/static/Crimes.jsp#violenttheft) > robbery (http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/static/Crimes.jsp#robbery)
Verdict: Not Guilty (http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/static/Verdicts.jsp#notguilty) > no_subcategory (http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/static/Verdicts.jsp#no_subcategory)

User Wiki: Corrections (http://www.hrionline.ac.uk/obp-wiki/index.php/Category:Corrections); Add Information (http://www.hrionline.ac.uk/obp-wiki/index.php/Main_Page)
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198. MARY CONELLY (39) , Feloniously assaulting Auguste Carlson, with intent to rob him.
MR. ROBERTSON Prosecuted; MR. ROMIEU Defended, at the request of the COURT.
AUGUSTE CARLSON (Interpreted). I am a Norwegian, and do not understand English—I am a sailor—on 22nd December I left my ship about 6 p.m.—it was in the river—I went up Ratcliff Highway to find a boarding-house—I then went out with the chief mate for a walk about 7 o'clock—we went into a dancing-room—we went out shortly after, and went into another dancing-room—we had a glass of hot rum, or toddy, and a glass of ale in the first dancing-room, and two glasses of ale in the second—we were in the second about a quarter of an hour—we then went into a public-house—we had a glass of rum each—I felt rather giddy and overcome, and left the mate in the dance-house and walked along the street for fresh air—I rejoined the mate, and was with him after about an hour and a half—a young woman came up and spoke to me in the Ratcliff Highway, St. George's Street, about 9 p.m.—we went to a house in a dark street, not a public house—I saw the prisoner when
See original (http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/images.jsp?doc=188201090054) http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/i/genericThumb.jpg (http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/images.jsp?doc=188201090054)
we entered a second room—the other woman asked me for drink—I gave her half a crown—she gave it to the prisoner to go for drink—when she returned I asked the prisoner for the change—she said she had spent all the money in drink—she brought some rum in a bottle, I can't say how much—I was three parts drunk—all three drank together—the other woman asked for more money to go for more drink—I said, "You have got quite enough to-night, and I shan't give you any more"—we were drinking about three-quarters of an hour—the other woman put her hand into my right-hand trousers pocket, and tried to get some money—she was sitting the same side of me as the pocket—I caught hold of the pocket—the prisoner held me—she was on the other side of the table, about two steps off; but she ran round the table, flew at me, held me by the coat, and scratched my face—while she was struggling with me I received a cut on the back of my right hand with a knife—I was grasping the pocket at the same time—the other woman dragged the pocket out—I cannot say who inflicted the wound—I saw a long knife, I cannot say which woman had it—I lost no money—I had 7s. and some odd pence in my pocket—it remained in the pocket—I got frightened, halloed out, struck the prisoner with my fist in the eye, and ran out—I did use a knife—I made an attempt at the prisoner—when I got outside I halloed out for help—a man took hold of me, and I was taken by a policeman to the station—I was charged, I don't know what with—I was in jail till next morning—I was brought before the Magistrate—I gave evidence against the prisoner—I was discharged.
Cross-examined. My hand is not quite healed. (It was unbound and shown to the Jury.)
Re-examined. A doctor examined my hand, and has since attended me.
WILLIAM TROUGHTON (Policeman H 353). The prisoner was charged on 23rd December—it was a countercharge by order of the Magistrate—I apprehended her; she said nothing—when the charge was read over to her she said" I never did it in my life"—I took Carlson into custody about 11.15 p.m. on 22nd December in High Street, Shadwell—I know Palmer's Place; it is a turning out of St. George's Street—Carlson was being held by a private individual, and I detained him while another constable found Conelly—she charged Carlson with stabbing her; she had a cut on her shoulder about the width of a finger nail—we found that at the station—the prosecutor was bleeding profusely from the hand in the street—he was drunk—we could not understand him, and had to call in a Norwegian, who explained what he was charged with—he had a cut across the knuckles of the right hand, and another on the side of his hand; his pocket was hanging out, and there was some money in the bottom of it, as it hung by the stuff of the trousers—the Norwegian said Carlson denied stabbing the woman—he also had a scratch on the side of his face—I was unable to find the other woman—the locality is very low and chiefly inhabited by prostitutes—I know the prisoner by sight.
Cross-examined. The prosecutor identified this knife (produced) as his at the station—the other constable picked it up.
JOHN MATHESON (Policeman H 298). On 22nd December I met the prisoner in Palmer's Place, at the bottom of St. George's Street—she appeared to have been drinking—she was bleeding from the shoulder; she took her shawl off, and I could see it—she said she had been stabbed by some man—I picked up this knife in St. George's Street, about 50
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yards from the house she complained of being assaulted in—the woman followed me out of the house, and we all four went to the station together—Carlson recognised his knife at the station the same evening—he said "That is my knife; I am sure of that"—I went to 5, Palmer's place, and was ordered out by a prostitute who presumes to be the landlady—the house is a brothel—the prisoner was apprehended the following morning at the police-court.
Cross-examined. The prosecutor was drunk.
The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. " I did not rob him. I did not put my hand nigh him. The sergeant in the Court knows me as a hard-working woman. "
NOT GUILTY .

Howard Brown
12-31-2009, 03:36 PM
Thanks very much for the cool story A.P.

Two things though:

1. The surname is spelled differently than what Pearly Poll's was ( Connally for the husky voiced Poll ).

2. The age. Was PP 45 in 1888 ?

In any event...thanks very much.

How

Howard Brown
12-31-2009, 04:59 PM
A.P.

If this woman ( Not the Connely woman ) who was stabbed was stabbed by the Norwegian, then what prevented her from seeking help ?

This sounds like the women got off easy.

Sam Flynn
12-31-2009, 06:29 PM
2. The age. Was PP 45 in 1888 ?
She was 35 in 1888, How - which is consistently recorded on three separate stays at the Whitechapel Infirmary. Of course, she might have felt more obliged to give her true age at a Court of law. That said, the only "Mary Ann Connelly" I found (of the correct age) in London during the 1891 Census was a Lambeth policeman's wife!

As to the spelling, Pearly Poll indeed did spell her name "Connelly" (albeit with two "Ns"), so AP might be onto something.

Howard Brown
12-31-2009, 06:37 PM
Sam:

The ages doesn't jive,buddy. A.P.'s dinner date was 39 on Jan. 9th ( My daughter's birthday by the way....), 1882... while our gal from George Yard was 35 ( as you correctly stated ) in 1888.

'Splain that.:drum:

A.P. Wolf
12-31-2009, 09:03 PM
Well excuse me boys, but Pearly was in her forties by 1888, the same as her ol partner Tabram.
You dive, and I'll find the pearls.

Howard Brown
12-31-2009, 09:46 PM
Tabram was 39, Mr. Pearlstein.

The A to Z has Poll as being born in 1838...making her 44 in 1882 at some point and 50 in 1888.

Your gal is 39 in Jan. 1882. and probably pushing 40 in 1882....and 46 in 1888.

A 4 year difference along with the different spelling, old bean

Sam Flynn
12-31-2009, 10:04 PM
Tabram was 39, Mr. Pearlstein.

The A to Z has Poll as being born in 1838...making her 44 in 1882 at some point and 50 in 1888.
The "Mary Ann Connelly" of 16 George Street, who attended the Whitechapel Infirmary thrice with bronchial complaints (remember PP's husky voice) in May, June and July 1888, was almost certainly Pearly Poll... and she gives her age as 35 in 1888. Either the (old) A-Z is out by some nine years, and/or our gravelly female friend was lying 'bout her age :)

HNY, by the way!

Howard Brown
12-31-2009, 10:55 PM
Sammy....thanks for that, because that very mention is what I couldn't find at the time. Nina used the A to Z listing...which I thought didn't jibe with the census...

It makes A.P.'s gal a lot older than the Poll we know. Eleven years difference.

Mrs.Fiddymont
01-01-2010, 06:16 AM
Hey, we females always lie about our age, you know! And having done lots of genealogy, I have yet to see a census taker who could get their facts straight--whether with names or dates! (Example: I have a many-times-great aunt blessed with the first name "Piety"--no, sadly, I kid you not. Apparently this was an odd name to the census taker too--he put her down as "Pouty"--ROFL!!) :shocked: :lol:

BTW, I always liked old Pearly Poll. I don't know how much she and I would have had in common--not much, maybe--but I think I would have liked her a lot!! :whoo:

Howard Brown
01-01-2010, 08:25 AM
Hey, we females always lie about our age, you know-- Mrs. Fiddymont

I hear you, Mrs. Fiddymont.

However, the woman A.P. found is older than the one we have come to know and love and who some of us totally disregard as a witness to anything linked to the Tabram murder. This would be a case of a woman lying about her age in order to make herself older than she really was.

Happy New Year !

A.P. Wolf
01-01-2010, 10:05 AM
Indeed folks, as regards the spelling of Pearly Poll's name, we only have to look at The Times reports on the Crickman, Crickmer, Crickmen, Crickner, CrackerJack case where such a variety of spellings are used that it makes the situation almost impossible to research. And then the OB cocks up his name as well.
The Le Grand cases, spread over so many years also illustrate that deviant spellings creep in all the time, and I would estimate he is in court under at least five different varients of Le Grand... plus his age goes up and down over the years; and it must be said that the courts and police relied on people to give up their own age, and many simply did not know it, or were prepared to lie about either for vanity reasons, or more often to avoid previous convictions being mentioned at their trial, and this rule applies to the name given as well.
It is fickle to argue age and spelling variations when dealing with police and court records from the LVP. We know that.

Howard Brown
01-01-2010, 10:15 AM
Very good points A.P....and ones that one such as myself know are so damned prevalent when it comes to researching through various newspapers. Often,information on a person or even an event will materialize if a researcher misspells the name. Gold in them thar hills without even lifting a hoe.

But considering that you've suggested she was our gal despite the pair of problematic points that this was indeed Pearly Poll, that's the only reason I offered what you might feel as niggling counterpoints. I'll be honest A.P....I want that to be Poll so that we would have more knowledge as to her life story. It hasn't been concluded yet but again with admitted prejudice, I hope you are right.

A.P. Wolf
01-01-2010, 01:13 PM
Sorry, How, I didn't mean to be tetchy, especially at the very start of a new year.
Must have been the articulated truck full of Irish whisky that hit me last night at midnight!
As ever, I stand by me guns, this is Pearly Poll... and I say that by comparing her remarks to the police and courts in 1888 with those in this earlier case. Her 'mannish' qualities - mentioned in 1888 - do come across quite strongly in this earlier fracas, which I believe shed some much needed light on exactly what happened to Martha Tabram on the night of her murder. These girls were pulling a well-worn scam, and their luck ran out in George Yard.

Howard Brown
01-01-2010, 01:19 PM
No need to 'splain, A.P.....I know how you meant it old bean. I was the one being the fussy cynic...not you.

I'm glad you explained WHY you felt it was her and again I really hope it is. Its a damned good scenario and I hope a lot of people come to this thread to check your theory out.

See that little gem I put up yesterday from 1865 where the pross threw a man outta the bordello by way of the window and he died?

A.P. Wolf
01-01-2010, 02:57 PM
No worries, How. I'm up to something here, as you may have guessed, and that is the connection between Pearly Poll, the Ratcliff Highway - and more in particular Palmer's Place in St Georges Street - and then how that connection ended up back in Dorset Street in 1888.
This will give you a clue:

' By some means, however, she suddenly drifted into the East End. Here fortune failed her , and a career which stands out in bold and sad contrast to her earlier experience was commenced. Her experience of the East End appears to have begun with a woman who resided in one of the thoroughfares off Ratcliff Highway, now known as St. George's street. This person appears to have received Kelly direct from her West End home, for she had not been very long with her when, it is stated, both women went to the French "lady's" residence and demanded her box which contained numerous dresses of a costly description. Kelly at last indulged in intoxicants, it is stated, to an extent which made her an unwelcome friend. From St. George's street she went to lodge with Mrs. Carthy at Breezer's Hill, Pennington street. This place she left about eighteen months or two years ago, and from that time seems to have left Ratcliff altogether, and taken up quarters in Dorset street. '

Now that is about Mary Kelly, but as I'll hope you know, Pearly Poll admitted later in 1888 that she knew Chapman very well, and had lodged with her at 35 Dorset Street... curious then that Mary Kelly may well have been in Palmer's Place, St George's Street, at exactly the same time as the OB case I have posted above, in fact the young lady in the scam that honey-potted the sailor was probably none other than Mary Jane Kelly.
As you'll know I like being out on a limb.

Howard Brown
01-01-2010, 03:10 PM
A.P.

This is one limb that might bear a lot of fruit, A.P. on an issue within the Kelly "story" as well. It might go a long way in reexamining what I think may be a myth regarding Kelly that seems to have insinuated itself in the Case history. Bear with me old bean....

You bring up a specific point in that paragraph on Kelly that has puzzled me in the past and thats the rather speedy nosedive that Kelly is assumed to have taken from West End courtesan to East End punchboard.

Barnett's recollections as applicable to MJK without question emanated from Kelly herself...and its understandable that others may not "see" what you and I may see here mutually....that this plunge from the heights to the depths so rapidly is not fully explained. It wasn't as if it was a gradual decline from being a house hooker to a field hooker over a long period of time...from someone with dresses and a degree of elegance unlike the Chapmans' and Nichols' and Strides' with above average looks to living in the shittiest street in the shittiest section of the shittiest neighborhood in London.

Just like..."snap"...that.