Whatever Happened To Jack The Ripper ? Flight

[How Brown]

A thread which has a lot of potential, in my view.

Could the Ripper have moved on to another clime ?

This would mean,of course, that you either feel he committed other murders elsewhere....or relocated elsewhere without murdering...or simply moved,period, without the added speculation of him doing this or that.

How many among us see similar crimes elsewhere which have raised our eyebrows to the point that we consider them possible Ripper murders ?

How about probable murders ?

[Nemo]

He may also have either been in the military or navy or similar which entailed him leaving the area

He could have joined the military to escape or even been Shanghaied into service

There are indications that work was to be offered to the unemployed and other Whitechapel residents, in which case he would be most likely to have travelled East (IMO) - Europe, possibly Africa or more than likely Australia

The "crimes" that would go unsaid and undetected could be those committed while in uniform on the battlefield (or otherwise) and also onboard ship

[Adam Went]

I could rant on about George Chapman going to America and the murders that took place over there and what not. But for everyones sake, I won't here!

It's a definite possibility that Jack could have left the country or the area after the murders, but I don't think it was necessary for him to do so. The police were no closer to catching him by the Kelly murder than they were after Nichols murder (or, if you're like me and believe Martha Tabram was his first victim, after her murder). If he had wanted to continue killing in London, he could have gone on. Perhaps he chose not to. Perhaps he moved. Perhaps something else happened.

I watched a show on TV a couple of months back on JTR, can't remember the name, but they were trying to apply modern methods of tracking down criminals to the JTR case. Before they even showed the results, I thought how pointless it was in the JTR case. Of course, when they showed the chart of the most likely places the police would have found JTR's home, it was smack bang in the middle of the murder sites. Homes which probably would have been searched by the police in 1888 and their occupants have to account for themselves, and homes which certainly would have been under constant surveillance in any case.

It's entirely possible that JTR lived in the Whitechapel-Spitalfields area somewhere amongst his victims, but I would be less surprised to find out he lived close by, but not THAT close by. The theory is that killers generally don't like operating too far away from their homes, which may normally be true, but I don't believe so in this case. In the East End of 1888, anybody who had half an idea of the area and its people would have known that Whitechapel-Spitalfields was the lowest of the low. JTR would have known that if he was going to get away with the murders anywhere, this was the place to do it, amongst all the homeless people, prostitutes and workmen who he could slip in between un-noticed.

Anyway, I've gone off topic a bit here, but my point is that I don't think that JTR needed to change his murder area if he wanted to keep killing. He may have moved due to other reasons, such as work overseas, etc, but not so if he wanted to keep killing.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Nemo]

There was a woman who said that she could place Frederick Deeming in Aldgate on the night of the double event

Other indications are that he was in Africa during 1888

His movements are really a mystery between March 1888 and late 1889

The woman in question seemed adamant that it was Deeming she met (going by the name Lawson at the time)

Deeming would be a good candidate for an internationally mobile Ripper who left the country after the murders

Deeming is quite interesting in a number of respects in that he also represents a well dreesed suspect with money and education - though intermittently insane

He was also a sea-faring man who was a ship's fireman (I think)

He possessed some fearsome sounding surgical instruments

His story may also be reflected in the theories of Forbes Winslow (1910)who believed his suspect to be of similar class and social standing and who travelled to South Africa via Australia...

These details came from a Melbourne woman - Deeming had been in Melbourne between 1888 and the early 1890's

[Adam Went]

Nemo:

I've been to Deeming's jail call in Melbourne, which was where he was imprisoned after his capture in 1892. Aside from the fact that he wasn't in London in 1888, I think it's difficult to compare the activities of a man like Deeming with JTR. Two entirely different characters with two entirely different modes of killing, with nothing more than hearsay and sketchy reports to back it up.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Nemo]

I didn't know that much about Deeming Adam - I always assumed he was a non-starter as a Ripper suspect

I'm not so sure now though - so I've been looking into his canditure recently

We actually have a witness who puts him in the East End in Late Sept / early Oct 1888 so we would have to discount her story - it does not seem to be a sensationalist story to me

Then there is the similarities between Forbes Winslow's theories and the life of Deeming

..and Deeming is supposed to have confessed to only two of the Ripper's crimes - don't you think that's strange?

Why would not a liar just say that he committed all the murders - to single out two of the murders is a bit too specific, and quite out of place for the period - and he wouldn't say that if it was definitely ascertained that he wasn't even in England during 1888

He did cut the throats of women and children, was insane, and was a seafaring man

He often had money and in comparison would fit Hutchinson's description of the "Toff"

There's a few points to be made - I'll try and post some Deeming stuff on his own thread tomorrow

[Adam Went]

Nemo:

Several people confessed to the Ripper crimes during the time they were taking place, and were discounted by the police at the time. That's no new thing.

Interesting that you've chosen to research him though - I took a series of photos inside his cell and around the Old Melbourne Gaol when I visited there a few years back. I think some of these have been published in Ripperologist since, but can't say for sure since I was away from the case at the time. Anyway, I'd be happy to forward a few to you if you're interested.

Cheers,
Adam.

[How Brown]

Nemo:

I'll look for the article with AW on Deeming for you...I think its in one of the early ezine Ripperologist Magazines from waaaay back in 2005 or early 2006.

Come to think of it, we may have photos of AW in jail ( when he was a hoodlum ) where Deeming stayed here on the Forums.

[Adam Went]

Thanks How. So it did get published then? Haha. Unfortunately I think the article itself was incomplete when it got published, but the photos are the main importance. It would be great if you could dig it up - I haven't even seen the finished version myself!!

I think it would be a little later than that - I didn't go to Melbourne until late 2005. Maybe you're thinking of the article I did with Amanda Howard and Antonio Sironi? Dunno, I've lost track...

Cheers,
Adam.

[How Brown]

Hang on AW.....maybe I am thinking of the one you and Amanda and Antonio did. Damn. Thats right.

I do remember you sent me pages and photos...now I'm gonna be thinking of where that is all night.

[Adam Went]

Sorry How haha.
I should have a copy of it on here somewhere but I'm not sure that I do, since I've swapped computers since then and might have left it on the old one...will have a look round later though. Unless anybody else has a copy of that issue of Ripperologist it was in?

I'd have a rough guess and say it was somewhere around mid 2007.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Nemo]

I'd like to see the pics and article if possible - thanks for the offer Adam, much appreciated

I've been reading most of the articles in the following links which I recommend to anyone interested in Deeming

http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/deeming/story.htm

http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/page/298496?zoomLevel=1

[Adam Went]

Nemo:

If you PM me your e-mail, I'll send the article and pics off to you as soon as I can find it/get it.

I'll be the first to openly admit that the article is rubbish, it wasn't completed properly and there'll be nothing in there that you won't already know about Deeming, but really, the "article" was just a filler between the photos.

Strangely enough, as I mention in the article, despite Deeming's status as a killer and JTR suspect, he isn't the most famous inmate of the Old Melbourne Gaol! That would be Ned Kelly, the bushranger.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Nemo]

Thanks very much Adam - I'll do that now

Ned Kelly is one of my favourite historical characters though he was a bit of a rogue to say the least.

I have some Australian relatives who sent me a lot of information in regard to Kelly when I was a kid - as well as some stuff from the gold mines at Ballarat if I remember correctly

[Adam Went]

Ned Kelly is definitely a legend down here, and what I saw in the Old Melbourne Gaol proves it. Obviously the Gaol is now a museum, and actually certain parts of it no longer exist, but the section that does exist has all sorts of stuff devoted to him. Life-size cut outs which you can have your photo with, model displays, prison records...you name it. Deeming has very little devoted to him in comparison, just access to his cell (No. 27 or 28 on the ground floor from memory), which has a few items and a plaque with info on him on the wall of his cell. That's about it. Anyway, it was still an eerie experience, and if you're ever in Melbourne I'd definitely recommend a visit.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Nemo]

Do they have Ned Kelly's gang's "armour"?

[Adam Went]

Yes I think they do have some of it - and one of the guns. I'm pretty sure I've got photos of that in with the Deeming collection somewhere actually....

Cheers,
Adam.

[Chris G.]

Do they have Ned Kelly's gang's "armour"?

For Ned Kelly's armor see Mr. Google (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4SUNA_enUS307US213&q=Ned+Kelly+armor). Enjoy.

C

[Nemo]

Thanks Chris!

I expect you'd know a bit about another early use of body armour / bullet proof vest

I believe Cole Younger survived being shot a number of times due to his habit of wearing 1/4" thick leather body armour

[Nemo]

On topic, there are numerous arrests and theories from other countries after 1888, so it seems a common theory that the Ripper had emigrated

If the Ripper did emigrate, what do you think he would do if he chose to continue killing?

Would he search out the common prostitutes of the new country and imitate his London crimes?

Or would he kill, but possibly with a new victim pool due to circumstances and possibly via a new method?

Would he kill? Perhaps his motive was essentially connected to his surroundings and way of life in Whitechapel

He could have emigrated and lived a useful life elsewhere