Nemo
01-20-2010, 07:38 PM
Hi All
I can't remember seeing this before though the "Golden Lion" rings a bell
I don't think Michael Hertzberg appears in the suspect guide either
I'm not sure if the guy's been robbed with the Ripper murder's used in the pretence of "arresting" him - the likelihood is that it was the case perhaps
However, the defendants were found not guilty and the man acted very strangely if they are to believed - writing something to prove he was the Ripper!
Nov 19th 1888
50. JOHN McCARTHY (28) , Robbery with violence, with four others unknown, on Michael Hertzberg, and stealing 5s.
MR. BIRON Prosecuted; MR. HUTTON Defended.
MICHAEL HERTZBERG . I live at 3, Wells-street, St. George's—on the night of 15th November, at half-past ten or a quarter to eleven, I was in the Golden Lion public-house in Leman Street, having a pot of beer—the prisoner came to me and said, "Are you Jack the Ripper?"—I said, "Do I look like Jack the Ripper?"—he said, "I want to know if you are"—I took it for a joke, and said "Yes"—he touched me all round and said, "You have got some revolvers around you"—I waited a little while and then went out—he came out after me and. followed me with four boys—he took me by the arm and neck and said, "You are Jack the Ripper, I am going to bring you into the Police-Station"—I was very satisfied, because all the people knew me in Leman Street as an honest man—they took me along and took 5s. out of my left-hand trousers pocket from out of a pocket-book, and knocked me on the back side—the prisoner was the only one on my left side—I saw him take my pocket-book out—he and the others knocked me, and I called "Police"—the police came, and the prisoner and the others ran away—I made a complaint to the police, and we went to look for the prisoner, and half an hour after we found him in the public-house—I gave him in charge.
Cross-examined. I did not say to anybody that I was Jack the Ripper when I came into the public-house—I did not dance about the publichouse and say so—I came in and had a pennyworth of beer—the prisoner was sitting down, and two more men were there—there were a few people outside—they did not all say when I came outside, "There is Jack the Ripper;" they did not follow me to the station saying so; nobody was outside, all the talking was done inside—the prisoner and the other four men took me towards the station—no crowd followed, there was nobody
else but the four in the street—the prisoner struck me on my back with his hand, and with his leg too—it was dark, but I could see—the station is more than 50 yards from the public-house—I came back to the publichouse, put my head in and saw him sitting there, and went for a policeman—I came back in four or five minutes; he was still sitting there—the policeman called him out, and he was arrested—when he came out he did not say anything.
OLIVER CARTER (Policeman H 434). On 15th November, about a quarter to eleven, I was on duty in the neighbourhood of Leman Street—I heard a noise, in consequence of which I went and saw the prosecutor, who made a communication to me—I afterwards went with him to the Red Lion public-house—he went in first—I saw about 20 men in there sitting round, the prisoner among them—the prosecutor said to me, "That is the man that robbed me," pointing to the prisoner—I called the prisoner outside and told him what the prosecutor stated, and I said, "I shall take you into custody on this charge"—he said, "I merely took him by the arm, and was going to take him to the station to give him into custody for Jack the Ripper"—the prosecutor was quite sober.
Cross-examined. There were about 20 people in the public-house; no people outside—two men followed to the station, no one else—there was no noise in the public-house—the prisoner did not say when I arrested him, "It is a mistake."
The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate, "The man made a mistake altogether; I cannot say nothing else."
Witnesses for the Defence.
FLORANCE MURPHY . I am a stevedore of 162, Cable Street—on 15th November between 11 and 12, I was in the Golden Lion, when the prisoner and about ten other men were there—the prosecutor came in and was joking about; and he said "I am Jack the Ripper"—the prisoner looked at him and said, "That is the way to put himself away"—the prosecutor asked for a pennyworth of beer; he drank some of it and said, "I will show you whether I am Jack the Ripper"—he went behind the table and took out some documents and started writing—the prisoner went over to look, and the prosecutor seized them and put them in his pocket, so that the prisoner should not see them—I said to the prisoner," Let him alone; he says he will put himself away; we will all do with a reward"—I held the door open and stood at the door—the prosecutor went out, and the words "Jack the Ripper" gathered a great crowd; the prisoner stood in front of the door, about two yards from it; I kept him in my sight till I followed him back into the public-house—the prisoner did not assault or rob the prosecutor, because I forced him to come in; there is no mistake about that—we were all drinking together; he is innocent—they might as well have taken me, as the prisoner—I gave evidence at the Police-court.
Cross-examined. I was in the public-house half an hour before the prosecutor came in—he came in and volunteered the statement he was Jack the Ripper—I had never seen him before—I don't know if he lives about there—I know the prisoner—we said we should like to get hold of Jack the Ripper—the prisoner seriously thought the prosecutor was Jack the Ripper; he said he should give him in charge—he never touched him—he did not start taking him to the station—I saw the prosecutor leave the public-house—I held the door in my hand open, I did not go outside—there were a great many people outside—I could see what happened outside.
Re-examined. I did not believe the prosecutor was Jack the Ripper.
OLIVER CARTER (Re-examined). The place where I found the prosecutor was about ten yards from the public-house.
NOT GUILTY .
There was another indictment against the prisoner for an assault on the prosecutor, upon which no evidence was offered.
NOT GUILTY
I can't remember seeing this before though the "Golden Lion" rings a bell
I don't think Michael Hertzberg appears in the suspect guide either
I'm not sure if the guy's been robbed with the Ripper murder's used in the pretence of "arresting" him - the likelihood is that it was the case perhaps
However, the defendants were found not guilty and the man acted very strangely if they are to believed - writing something to prove he was the Ripper!
Nov 19th 1888
50. JOHN McCARTHY (28) , Robbery with violence, with four others unknown, on Michael Hertzberg, and stealing 5s.
MR. BIRON Prosecuted; MR. HUTTON Defended.
MICHAEL HERTZBERG . I live at 3, Wells-street, St. George's—on the night of 15th November, at half-past ten or a quarter to eleven, I was in the Golden Lion public-house in Leman Street, having a pot of beer—the prisoner came to me and said, "Are you Jack the Ripper?"—I said, "Do I look like Jack the Ripper?"—he said, "I want to know if you are"—I took it for a joke, and said "Yes"—he touched me all round and said, "You have got some revolvers around you"—I waited a little while and then went out—he came out after me and. followed me with four boys—he took me by the arm and neck and said, "You are Jack the Ripper, I am going to bring you into the Police-Station"—I was very satisfied, because all the people knew me in Leman Street as an honest man—they took me along and took 5s. out of my left-hand trousers pocket from out of a pocket-book, and knocked me on the back side—the prisoner was the only one on my left side—I saw him take my pocket-book out—he and the others knocked me, and I called "Police"—the police came, and the prisoner and the others ran away—I made a complaint to the police, and we went to look for the prisoner, and half an hour after we found him in the public-house—I gave him in charge.
Cross-examined. I did not say to anybody that I was Jack the Ripper when I came into the public-house—I did not dance about the publichouse and say so—I came in and had a pennyworth of beer—the prisoner was sitting down, and two more men were there—there were a few people outside—they did not all say when I came outside, "There is Jack the Ripper;" they did not follow me to the station saying so; nobody was outside, all the talking was done inside—the prisoner and the other four men took me towards the station—no crowd followed, there was nobody
else but the four in the street—the prisoner struck me on my back with his hand, and with his leg too—it was dark, but I could see—the station is more than 50 yards from the public-house—I came back to the publichouse, put my head in and saw him sitting there, and went for a policeman—I came back in four or five minutes; he was still sitting there—the policeman called him out, and he was arrested—when he came out he did not say anything.
OLIVER CARTER (Policeman H 434). On 15th November, about a quarter to eleven, I was on duty in the neighbourhood of Leman Street—I heard a noise, in consequence of which I went and saw the prosecutor, who made a communication to me—I afterwards went with him to the Red Lion public-house—he went in first—I saw about 20 men in there sitting round, the prisoner among them—the prosecutor said to me, "That is the man that robbed me," pointing to the prisoner—I called the prisoner outside and told him what the prosecutor stated, and I said, "I shall take you into custody on this charge"—he said, "I merely took him by the arm, and was going to take him to the station to give him into custody for Jack the Ripper"—the prosecutor was quite sober.
Cross-examined. There were about 20 people in the public-house; no people outside—two men followed to the station, no one else—there was no noise in the public-house—the prisoner did not say when I arrested him, "It is a mistake."
The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate, "The man made a mistake altogether; I cannot say nothing else."
Witnesses for the Defence.
FLORANCE MURPHY . I am a stevedore of 162, Cable Street—on 15th November between 11 and 12, I was in the Golden Lion, when the prisoner and about ten other men were there—the prosecutor came in and was joking about; and he said "I am Jack the Ripper"—the prisoner looked at him and said, "That is the way to put himself away"—the prosecutor asked for a pennyworth of beer; he drank some of it and said, "I will show you whether I am Jack the Ripper"—he went behind the table and took out some documents and started writing—the prisoner went over to look, and the prosecutor seized them and put them in his pocket, so that the prisoner should not see them—I said to the prisoner," Let him alone; he says he will put himself away; we will all do with a reward"—I held the door open and stood at the door—the prosecutor went out, and the words "Jack the Ripper" gathered a great crowd; the prisoner stood in front of the door, about two yards from it; I kept him in my sight till I followed him back into the public-house—the prisoner did not assault or rob the prosecutor, because I forced him to come in; there is no mistake about that—we were all drinking together; he is innocent—they might as well have taken me, as the prisoner—I gave evidence at the Police-court.
Cross-examined. I was in the public-house half an hour before the prosecutor came in—he came in and volunteered the statement he was Jack the Ripper—I had never seen him before—I don't know if he lives about there—I know the prisoner—we said we should like to get hold of Jack the Ripper—the prisoner seriously thought the prosecutor was Jack the Ripper; he said he should give him in charge—he never touched him—he did not start taking him to the station—I saw the prosecutor leave the public-house—I held the door in my hand open, I did not go outside—there were a great many people outside—I could see what happened outside.
Re-examined. I did not believe the prosecutor was Jack the Ripper.
OLIVER CARTER (Re-examined). The place where I found the prosecutor was about ten yards from the public-house.
NOT GUILTY .
There was another indictment against the prisoner for an assault on the prosecutor, upon which no evidence was offered.
NOT GUILTY