In League ?????

[Howard Brown]

Tumblety... in league with the Ripper ?!

St.Paul Globe
December 4th, 1888
Page 2

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/Photo%20Thanksgiving/inleague.jpg

[Nemo]

Yes - strange turn of phrase

I've seen it put forward before that Tumblety was possibly the instigator of the WM but not the perpetrator

I think that theory might have arisen from the belief that Tumblety was the American doctor seeking uteri

All the US papers reported that Tumblety was somehow suspected of being implicated in the WM - yet we find there is no evidence for that (is there?)

[Howard Brown]

Neems:

I don't know if you saw the press release I put up yesterday....but Stephen Ryder has the Dec. 4th issue of one paper and we have the issue from the 5th of that same paper. In the issue which came out on the 4th, it was mentioned Dr. T was under surveillence. On the 5th, Murray and Byrnes state that he wasn't. So much for a serious WM suspect,eh ?

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Roger Palmer found a reference to Tumblety staying at the Cornish Arms on the night of his arrival in New York. This jives with How's press cutting, in spite of the fact that the New York World reported having followed him uptown to Mrs Macnamara's lodging house at 79 E 10th Street.

The Cornish Arms on West Street [along which La Bretagne berthed at Pier 42] had a refined clientele and was known by Inspector Byrnes, as this report from the Brooklyn Daily Eagle, 6th December 1891 demonstrates [sorry it's so long]—

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/HowieNina/Easter%202011/BDE06DEC1891.jpg

Regards,

Simon

[Nemo]

I don't know if you saw the press release I put up yesterday....but Stephen Ryder has the Dec. 4th issue of one paper and we have the issue from the 5th of that same paper. In the issue which came out on the 4th, it was mentioned Dr. T was under surveillence. On the 5th, Murray and Byrnes state that he wasn't. So much for a serious WM suspect,eh ?

Hi Howard

Wouldn't that have been their response anyway?

They obviously had no evidence from England, though the surveillance may imply that they were looking for something - anything (but never found it)

ie if surveillance on ANY suspect was uncovered and became public knowledge, wouldn't the police deny the surveillance?

I'm not sure what denotes a serious suspect, but he was at least one of many IMO

Some of the other suspects were discounted for very trivial reasons - IF Tumblety was ever suspected, he doesn't seem to have been able to supply a simple alibi for any of the crucial dates, otherwise he would have been immediately discounted

I would go with the idea that Tumblety encouraged the stories of a Ripper connection for notoriety only, but if he did, he seems to have miscalculated the response

His life and career seem distinctly affected during this period

[Howard Brown]

Thanks for that Simon !!!!

Nemo:

"if surveillance on ANY suspect was uncovered and became public knowledge, wouldn't the police deny the surveillance?"

True. Can't find any cause for debating that point buddy. You've got me there.
Even the remark that he was "free to move about" or something to that effect might be "bait" in a case like this...for him to do something which would give them cause to arrest him for some charge or the other.

The bottom line old bean is that they didn't do a very good job at surveilling him, since he left shortly afterwards. IF...he was wanted or seriously suspected, they screwed the pooch on that one.

[Joe Chetcuti]

The Evening Chronicle of St. Louis on Thursday Dec 6th printed this quote from the owner of the Cornish Arms on West Street: "A man came to my house Sunday evening (Dec 2nd) and gave the name Dr. Tomanly. He said he came on the French Line steamer Bretagne." Simon is correct that the St. Paul newspaper article supports this Cornish Arms story.

A World reporter witnessed Tumblety entering Mrs. McNamara's property on E. 10th Street at 2:20pm on Sunday Dec 2nd. And of course there is Simon's discovery of the Tuesday Dec 4th Syracuse Daily Journal that reported Tumblety was boarding at Washington Street.

It's possible that all three reports were correct. I don't think Tumblety stayed too long at Mrs. McNamara's place on Sunday afternoon.

[Joe Chetcuti]

By the way Simon, the funny thing about the Russell Sage story that you just posted is that the mystery of the unknown bomber was solved by The World journalist who interviewed Tumblety. You'll find this quote in the current issue of The Journal of the Whitechapel Society. It was originally printed in 1943:

"While Inspector Thomas Byrnes was still talking about "anarchists" The World printed the news, identifying the would-be assassin as Henry L. Norcross, a Boston broker."