Atlanta's Black Jack The Ripper of 1911

[How Brown]

On the Worldwide Rippers thread in this particular Forum, two or three entries are found which are linked to the following.
Plus this link to "The English Ripper", which mentions two suspects
http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=104492#post104492

Notice ....7 murders in 7 weeks.
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Atlanta Georgian and News
Jul. 11, 1911
Page 1
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[How Brown]

Atlanta Georgian and News
Jul. 14, 1911
Page 16
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Atlanta Georgian and News
Jul. 14, 1911
Page 3
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[How Brown]

Atlanta Georgian and News
Jul. 17, 1911
Page 3
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[How Brown]

Shades of the East End Vigilance Committee(s) in this following article.
We've already seen rewards being suggested and a police official publicly defending the efforts of the police department...just a few of the similarities between the skeins.



Atlanta Georgian and News
Jul. 18, 1911
Page 2
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[How Brown]

We also find internecine violence on the upswing amongst the negroes of Atlanta at the time of this black Jack The Ripper...much like we ( or at least I do ) notice a rise in reported cases of violence towards women in London around the time of the Ripper. At least, thats my observation anyway.

Atlanta Georgian and News
Jul. 25, 1911
Page 5
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[How Brown]

Atlanta Georgian and News
Jul. 29, 1911
Page 18
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[How Brown]

Atlanta Georgian and News
Aug. 25, 1911
Page 3
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Atlanta Georgian and News
Aug. 30, 1911
Page 3
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[How Brown]

Atlanta Georgian and News
Sep. 1, 1911
Pages 1 & 16
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[How Brown]

Atlanta Georgian and News
Oct. 24, 1911
Page 18
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[How Brown]

Atlanta Georgian and News
Nov. 11, 1911
Page 1 & 12
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[How Brown]

As posited by many Ripperologists today, the idea of more than one "Ripper" or killer on the streets of the East End is echoed in the following.

One other thing which you might have thought of yourself...
...if they never caught the killer of any of the dozen victims, how did they, meaning the police,press or blacks themselves....know it was a black Ripper in the first place ?

Just as with the adage that "no Englishman could commit these ( 1888) crimes..."....could the possibility of a Caucasian killer have been excluded for similar reasons ?
Atlanta Georgian and News
Nov. 24, 1911
Page 9
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[How Brown]

Likewise in 1888, great passion and an appeal to women to stay indoors ( I have yet to see any definite references to prosses...yet I'd wager some of the women were ) was found.

Atlanta Georgian and News
Nov. 27, 1911
Page 4
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[How Brown]

...and here's where the story ends.

This is the last article found in the Atlanta paper on this skein of murders.

No culprit convicted for the skein or the majority of murders, despite rewards, patrols, heightened police presence,appeals to women to stay off the streets, and two promising suspects released ( Think Ludwig and Pizer )....

Atlanta Georgian and News
Nov. 27, 1911
Page 5
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[How Brown]

7 months later....

New York Times
May 12,1912
Page 6
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[How Brown]

My great grandfather's name was Henry Brown.


Grey River Argus
New Zealand
October 22, 1912
Page 8
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[admin tim]

You sure this wasn't Jack da Rapper?

[How Brown]

Tim:

All kidding aside, don't you see the similarities between the WM and this series in..I suppose you would call it...the structure of an unsolved skein of murders ?

1. After a few murders, people assail the police for not finding the killer.
2. The press gives the killer a name.
3. The locals offer rewards and offer to patrol the streets
4. Women of the evening are practically begged to get indoors
5. Copycats or those who were resting just under the dust are brought out ( the woman who dressed up like a man in the Atlanta case)
6. Suspects are mentioned and considered promising....but then released.
I have found a few articles where negroes lynched negroes ( which you'll never hear about in today's managed educational system) and I was surprised that no attempts to breach the jails to lynch either Huff or Henderson were made by negroes themselves.
...and so on and so forth.

See if you can reply sometime this year. I have a life to live and can't wait around for months for a response from you... you potatohead.

[How Brown]

For some reason, I cannot locate the source at the moment for this commentary on the Atlanta murders...but I will.

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[Nemo]

7641

http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/atlanta_s_jack_the_ripper/Content?oid=62878

[How Brown]

Neems:

Thanks for those interesting bits.
A White man would have stood out like a sore thumb in those neighborhoods..

It struck me while looking into the papers that when this guy Brown was nabbed and apparently confessed to that one murder...that the police might have been happy to have one solid suspect after all the hassle they went through trying to catch the killer....and based on that, just nailed him with all the counts.

I could see that occurring in the WM....that had someone been caught for one murder, that they, the prosecution team, would have tried very hard to connect him to all of them, confession or not, considering the circumstances. I might be wrong here, but the thought did occur to me.

Thanks again old man.

[Nemo]

I'd generally agree Howard

Guilty by implication and circumstantial evidence

However, wasn't it that Grant Grainger chappie who was caught red-handed stabbing a woman because she was "extortionate" (Shades of Liz Stride?) ?

He must have been very close to being tried convicted as the Ripper, but wasn't

It's also been mentioned before that numerous other suspects were discounted as being the Ripper because they had alibis for some of the dates of the murders

For example, If arrested, there might be as much chance that the killer of Nichols, Eddowes and Chapman may have escaped because he had an alibi for Kellys murder


The Atlanta murders also mirror the escalation of possibly numerous single murders into a series with the perpetrator as some "monster"

[How Brown]

Nemo:

Good points. I'll get back with ye today after work. These Atlanta crimes, in a way...at least to me, can be seen as representative of what might have happened had one man been convicted for one murder in the WM.

[How Brown]

What if a London grand jury had decided that the murder victims in the Whitechapel Murder case had been killed by separate individuals ?

Nemo first brought this article to light on this thread....I just added the question above.

Atlanta Constitution
March 3, 1912
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[Celesta]

I admit that is has been a good while since I read about these cases, but somehow I don't quite buy this. In "each case"? In "almost every case"? Well, which is it? Each? Or almost every? Or was it "in almost every instance?" :(

[How Brown]

Cellie:

There are several articles on this case which haven't been put on the boards that appeared after the previous 3/3/12 piece in the Constitution.
One of these days,I'll put them up.
Its an interesting skein,for sure.

[Celesta]

How, I've been meaning to ask you, since you started posting these articles, did you look at the Macon newspaper? I tried to, but it uses some format that I don't have and that I'm not familiar with, and I couldn't get in. I think there's a chance there may be some more articles there. Can't promise, of corpse, but there's a chance. I believe it's called the Macon Telegraph.

[How Brown]

Cellie;

We can access the Telegraph...I'll give 'er a go later on...thanks for the suggestion.

[Celesta]

Good! I'll keep an eye out, then. It'll be good to know if there is anything. Thanks, How.

[Celesta]

I thought I would mention that there's a new book out on the Atlanta Ripper:

The Atlanta Ripper: The Unsolved Case of the Gate City's Most Infamous Murders, by Jeffery Wells.

This is a small book, 101 pages of text, including a few pictures. Wells is a local historian.

If this is posted elsewhere, I apologize for the redundancy.

[How Brown]

Cellie:

Thanks for mentioning the book !

http://www.amazon.com/Atlanta-Ripper-Unsolved-Infamous-Murders/dp/1609493818

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[Celesta]

I picked it up at *Sam's Club for $12.98, but, as I said, this is a local author, and I don't know if Sam's in other regions would carry it.

*Not to be confused with our own Mighty Mr. Flynn. :)

[George Lorton]

I wonder I didn't find this topic earlier. I haven't heard about it in 20 some years. My Grandad who was born in 1900 knew about this case while it was happening as a boy growing up and talked to my Grandma about it. She told me about it while we were watching Michael Kane's JTR. She and my Grandpa both felt that the killer was a white man who got away with it.

I think it might of been a man of mixed race who could pass for black or white.

[Celesta]

George, Both witnesses describe him as a tall, well-built, black man. Of course, they were seeing him after dark. I suppose it's possible that some of the pre-1911 murders, done by gunshot, might have been a white man. I have nothing to back that up, but, who knows, maybe your grandparents instincts were right. Racial tension was pretty high during that era.

[George Lorton]

Yeah I was that too as I am sure my grandpa did. However he might not have read the witness statements. I was just saying what they thought not that they had any special info.

What ticks me off is that 20 women were killed. I don't believe that every murder was committed by a different killer. I think the cops and press seized on that because they were afraid that it did not look good that 20 some women were slain and they never caught the guy who did it.

The I think those African American Youths who were in that club and wrote that letter to the papers were right. A black detective would of found out more because the black folks of those neighborhoods would of talked more to fellow black man and more might of come forward. A lot of the black residents did not trust the white cops and with good reason. I think that impeded the investigation.

[Celesta]

I keep wondering why so few people in Atlanta have ever heard of this string of murders in their own city. I didn't hear of it until maybe 5 or 6 years ago. At that time, I tried to find out more but there was not much info other than the Constitution and Journal articles. I think you're right; the African Americans would probably have opened up more to a black detective. At least this little book fills in some gaps. The Chamber of Commerce started pushing the Mayor, et al to provide more protection and a deeper investigation.

[George Lorton]

I keep wondering why so few people here have ever heard of this string of murders in their own city. I didn't hear of it until maybe 5 or 6 years ago. At that time, I tried to find out more but there was not much info other than the Constitution and Journal articles. I think you're right; the African Americans would probably have opened up more to a black detective. At least this little book fills in some gaps. The Chamber of Commerce started pushing the Mayor, et al to provide more protection and a deeper investigation.


Excellent Points Celesta, I need to study up more on this though as what I know about it what I have been told and what I have read on this topic that How posted. so you probably know more then me.

I am glad the book has come out as it focuses some much needed attention on this forgotten case.

[Celesta]

Excellent Points Celesta, I need to study up more on this though as what I know about it what I have been told and what I have read on this topic that How posted. so you probably know more then me.

I am glad the book has come out as it focuses some much needed attention on this forgotten case.


No, I'm sure you know more than I do! In that post, I meant to say "Atlanta," not "here," as here on the Forums! :lol: That must have sounded pretty rude! I just edited the post to read "Atlanta!"

Anyway, it's not that great a book, but for Atlantans, who are unaware of the murders, it might be an eye-opener.

[Stephen Thomas]

I think there's a chance there may be some more articles there. Can't promise, of corpse, but there's a chance. I believe it's called the Macon Telegraph.

A lovely Freudian Slip there, Celesta dear.

Hope you and yours are well.

[Celesta]

A lovely Freudian Slip there, Celesta dear.

Hope you and yours are well.


:biggrin1: :playball:


Long time no see, Stephen. We're doing pretty well, thanks. Hope you all are, too. :)

[How Brown]

Cellie :

What did the author say about the bizarre theft of (some) victims' shoes ?

It might sound stupid, but since the majority of the murders occurred during warm and then the hot months of Summer , I wonder whether those victims who it is supposed had their shoes taken after their death, actually were wearing shoes at the time they were murdered.

[Celesta]

Cellie :

What did the author say about the bizarre theft of (some) victims' shoes ?

It might sound stupid, but since the majority of the murders occurred during warm and then the hot months of Summer , I wonder whether those victims who it is supposed had their shoes taken after their death, actually were wearing shoes at the time they were murdered.

No, it doesn't sound stupid, because it was the Spring and Summer. He mentioned the shoes only in passing, so far. I'm still reading though. That would have been Sadie Holley on July 10th. All Wells said is that the shoes were never found. Some of the women were coming from work though, so I'm sure they would've been wearing shoes. He launches into Todd Henderson. I might as well say that he's working up to Mary Phagan.

How, you probably know as much, if not more than this author about these cases. He's a local man, so he knows some of the local history, which is useful. The book is not the comprehensive one ripper people would like to see, I'm afraid, but I think it may generate some interest, which would be nice. I've seen, on the net, some attempts to promote it, so maybe it will spur some more research. I spent the 12 bucks, because I knew that later I'd wish I had, and that it would be gone if I went back to get it.

Sorry I can't say more about the shoes right now. If more comes up, I'll let you know, How.


One frustrating thing is that the newspapers had so little to say early on, until the Journal caught on that these were serial killings, so who knows what details are forever missing. Also, for the pre-1911 killings, the address of the victim is more often cited than where the bodies were found. Although we know they were shot, mostly.

[How Brown]

Cellie:

Thanks very much for the response.
It just dawned on me...one of those sperm of the moment things....that maybe those women weren't wearing shoes in the first place.
:kiss:

[Celesta]

Cellie:

Thanks very much for the response.
It just dawned on me...one of those sperm of the moment things....that maybe those women weren't wearing shoes in the first place.
:kiss:

Not a bad thought:clap2:, either. :)

[Celesta]

Wells lists 3 victims as missing shoes:

July 10, 1911: Sadie Holley

Aug. 30, 1911: Mary Ann Duncan--Shoes 'removed and missing.'

Early November: Minne Wise---Shoes cut off and removed.

The author states that the taking of the shoes and, in one case, the removal of a portion of a finger, as souvenirs, is used to support the 'theory' that these murders were serial killings.

[How Brown]

Cellie:

Thanks very much for sharing that.:)..
I think it unlikely that those three victims weren't killed by the same man, considering the choice of this strange "souvenir", that being the shoes.

[Celesta]

Cellie:

Thanks very much for sharing that.:)..
I think it unlikely that those three victims weren't killed by the same man, considering the choice of this strange "souvenir", that being the shoes.


I don't know. The mutilations didn't start until a bit later, so maybe that's also true of the shoe-taking, as well. There's not enough known, esp. as the Journal didn't seem to notice that a serial killer was at large until around June 15th. They noted the first killings, but that was about it, apparently.

[Stephen Thomas]

Of course this is reminiscent of the Atlanta Child Murders case of 1979-81.

One theory was that the convicted man was the agent of a white paedophile group.

All of the many children were picked up in Afro-American neighbourhoods where 'white people', apart from the police, never went.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_murders_of_1979%E2%80%931981

[George Lorton]

I don't know. The mutilations didn't start until a bit later, so maybe that's also true of the shoe-taking, as well. There's not enough known, esp. as the Journal didn't seem to notice that a serial killer was at large until around June 15th. They noted the first killings, but that was about it, apparently.

I agree Celesta,

Quite apparent indeed. I agree that it was one killer and think as I said in an earlier post that the police were a bit slack in this case and that they should of gotten a man of color to investigate the neighborhoods as given the prejudices of the time, the police then might of gotten more leads from the residents if a black detective was the one asking the questions.


Of course this is reminiscent of the Atlanta Child Murders case of 1979-81.


I thought so too. Except the Child Murders of the late 70's would of been reminiscant of these ripper like murders. I wonder if anyone who was alive then the first murders were happening was around while the Child murders where going on or if the city even remembered them?

[Celesta]

I wonder if anyone who was alive then the first murders were happening was around while the Child murders where going on or if the city even remembered them?



I don't know, but I suppose there might be something somewhere that refers to that. I have been trying for days to think of anyone I know who would have heard their own parents speak of the murders. There is only one elderly woman left, and she's 88 years old and has Altzheimer's.

[Celesta]

Of course this is reminiscent of the Atlanta Child Murders case of 1979-81.

One theory was that the convicted man was the agent of a white paedophile group.

All of the many children were picked up in Afro-American neighbourhoods where 'white people', apart from the police, never went.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_murders_of_1979%E2%80%931981


I don't really know enough about these killings to say much. I wasn't living here when it happened but visited my family for the holidays, and I can tell you that everyone here was frightened. My mother shivered when she told me about all that had been going on. The people I talked to, and what I saw on the local news, made me think that no one thought any child was immune to what was happening.

[How Brown]

Removed her heart !!!


Staunton (Va.) Spectator & Vindicator
November 24, 1911
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[How Brown]

I never thought of it, but the Atlanta "Ripper" killed 16 in less than one year.

The Sun
NYC
February 17, 1912
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