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Old May 24th, 2017, 09:29 PM   #12
Danni
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Join Date: May 2017
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I wasn't sure at all about the c-sections in the Victorian era but thought you may be right Anna and you were! According to "Cesarean Section - A Brief History' written by the US National Library of Medicine:

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/cesarean/part2.html

C-sections were available and practised in the Victorian era - however, the results (particularly in Paris between 1787 and 1876) appeared to be dismal.

As for the lack of smell in the New Scotland Yard Torso there is the possibility that quick lime was used limit the smell. But not all the details of the case seem to fit with this. While it would solve the smell question it then raises a lot of other questions.

Given quick lime reacts with water, and it appears that the torso had been somewhat drained of blood and that the decomposition had taken place in the 'air' rather than in water then this could possibly account for the skin being in relatively good condition (it would have to have been dry not to react and 'burn' the skin on contact) but the internal portion of the torso was in an advanced state of decay with maggots (which I thought quicklime was supposed to inhibit the growth of). So I scratch my head...

However, wouldn't the lime have been discovered when the torso was examined? And wouldn't this have been an important fact to note? The good doctor seemed concerned that due to the advanced state of decomposition the body was dangerous for people to be around. Then it was sprayed with antiseptic and placed in spirits but would these not have reacted with lime and been visible to an observer? So, I am surprised that lime is not mentioned although it appears to be a relatively reasonable suggestion given the differing testimonies of the witnesses regarding smell. Alternatively, was the parcel just wrapped so tight and left so completely undisturbed that the smell was somewhat 'trapped' until the package was moved?

In any event, this dumping was a risk and it seems like the dumper wanted his actions to be seen rather than just dumping all the pieces into the river at the same time or burying them in lime somewhere else. This dumper chose to spread the bodies around. And it is interesting that never a head/skull was found. Perhaps these were the 'trophies' with the added benefit of making identification even harder.

As for the Torso dumper working as a team with JtR, I'm not too sure that would fit. While I do think that it is likely the methodical, seemingly smart torso dumper would was aware of JtR, JtR seems to be a bit of a different animal. Allough JtR may have heard of the New Scotland Yard torso and perhaps realised (if the two were not the same) that this was not one of 'his' it depends how focused he was on the press and we simply don't know anything vaguely about JtR's mental state. Although as we all know, serial killers can change their MO and operate in different ways and partake in different crimes which can make them such difficult criminals to catch so there always exists the possibility that JtR and the Torso dumper were one and the same.

In regards to a modern pair of serial killers operating in the same geographical area, that was Lee and Gillis. They did not work together. It was just that both serial killers were active in the same area. While I do not know about Lee, from all accounts, Gillis said that he followed what the news was saying about him to predict his next move and if he was "winning" the game of chess he felt he was playing with police.

Gillis was aware that another serial killer was active in the area due to the media coverage and that he followed the deeds of this 'competitor' with great (almost obsessive) interest. Lee's crimes received more press coverage and sensationalism than Gillis' crimes and Gillis wasn't overly thrilled by this. Perhaps it comes from wanting to be the best at what he did and discovering that he had a competitor that was attracting more attention?

In any event, I wouldn't put it past either JtR or the Torso dumper to have been aware of the other due to the press coverage of the crimes. If this spurred them into a more reckless MO or not is something I am interested in. This is because this was when Gillis made an error leaving his distinctive car tracks at a crime scene which I think started and ultimately lead police to his door - although he did leave DNA behind (and confessed when picked up by police) which sealed the deal.

JtR (unless he was very very insane and unaware of his surroundings which I doubt given his timing, luck and ability to keep evading the law) would have been aware of what the press were saying about his own crimes and what the people in the street were saying about his crimes - was this (similarly to Gillis) something that spurred or directed his next murder when the opportunity presented itself? I don't know. But the suggestion of MJK being a copycat kill based on the sensationalised descriptions of JTR crimes in the press could just as easily be flipped as JtR reading (or having related to him) the sensationalised details of his crimes and deciding to give the press exactly what they wanted as long as it suited his own purposes. There are many questions and few solid facts about either JtR or the Torso Dumper. The only real link I can see between them is that they both owned knives.
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