Hi All,
I'm a newbie to the forum and just trying to wrap my head around the era, the area, the mindset and society of the people in the East End and try to blend this with the investigative methodology of the police , their own prejudices and interactions with those people in the East End and lastly the medical knowledge and practises at time time coupled with the interactions with the police and the legalities and practises of the courts of the era. What a mouthful! And it certainly is a brain-ful as well particularly when I add in the relationship/interplay between the police, government, and the press! It's enough to confuse a newbie and make me tremble in my boots! At least I approach the situation as a blank canvas with no actual opinions or convictions when it comes to suspects! I'm just eager to learn more and perhaps chase the white rabbit down a hole every now and then!
I am interested in the potential linkages between JTR and the Torso mysteries and in the possibility that two or more killers were at work in the same geographical area at the same time. I do not think this would be surprising given the melting pot metropolis that London represented in the 1880s.
I believe (and think that this is a popular opinion) that this would attract persons with many oddities (including serial killers, occultists, fetishists and the like) as a superior place to indulge themselves with anonymity and get away with it without the scrutiny that would occur in say a small village or town. In particular, the desperation and high density of people in the East End would have proven a ripe hunting ground for victims - either for mischief, robbery, exploitation, murder etc - with what appears to be a high number of 'black holes' which represent truly bad neighbourhoods for crime and the destitute.
So in saying that, I am intrigued by the timing of the JtR murders and the Torso mysteries. There is strong debate over who were actually JTR victims so I'm not going to kick that beehive until I form a more educated opinion. And there is strong debate over whether the torso mysteries were in fact murders or not.
However, I feel it is safe to assume that a certain level of nefarious activities were afoot with the Torso mysteries given that on an ordinary day I don't feel the urge to dismember dead bodies (whether death occurred by natural causes, my own hand, or the hand of someone else) and dump the pieces just for jolly. A crime was occurring and whoever committed the dismemberment and dumping appeared to be careful, organised, and not wanting not to be caught for it (ie. drawing limited attention and no leads).
When reading up on the threads here about JTR and the Torso mysteries I was struck by the time line and it put me in mind of Sean Gillis and Derrick Todd Lea in Baton Rouge. Gillis was a random killer who appeared to carefully plan and wait for the opportunity to present itself. He defied serial killer profiles. But one thing I found particularly interesting was that due to media coverage, he was very aware that he had a competitor in the area - Derrick Todd Lea- and didn't want to be outdone by this other 'unknown at the time' serial killer. He also apparently (I couldn't find a truly reliable source at this early stage) to want to 'up' his crimes according to how the media reported them.
Given how saturated the press was with JTR stories and the fear it whipped up in the East End, if there was another criminal around who was dumping bodies, then there is the possibility that person viewed JTR as a competitor for the public interest or dangerous for business given the increase in police presence. While this is just a musing from drawing a vague parallel between a situation involving two serial killers and the potential of two serial killers in 1888, I am struck with the timing of placing a torso in the construction site for the New Scotland Yard building. This seems a particularly daring and pointed deed rather than a random dumping. And given that this was done during the considerable press feeding frenzy over JTR, I could be tempted to suggest that another criminal was trying to make a point to the police and public like a 'Look at me! I've over here!' attention grab. It's romantic theorising at its very best since I've no evidence to back up any of it!
In any event, the 1888 police investigation into these crimes occurring simultaneously when there was such political and social pressure to solve the crimes would have caused a lot of consternation and like humans can be inclined to do; corners were cut, assumptions were made, more promising leads were followed up and connections were made or overlooked. I just hope to learn more, research the old files and maybe dig up some information that may help shed a tiny light on the overall situation. Would anyone be able to point me in the right direction for more information on the Torso mysteries? I have read the threads on here and on casebook so I am wondering if there is are different and reputable resources that people could point me to? I am happy and eager to start chasing some rabbits
I'm a newbie to the forum and just trying to wrap my head around the era, the area, the mindset and society of the people in the East End and try to blend this with the investigative methodology of the police , their own prejudices and interactions with those people in the East End and lastly the medical knowledge and practises at time time coupled with the interactions with the police and the legalities and practises of the courts of the era. What a mouthful! And it certainly is a brain-ful as well particularly when I add in the relationship/interplay between the police, government, and the press! It's enough to confuse a newbie and make me tremble in my boots! At least I approach the situation as a blank canvas with no actual opinions or convictions when it comes to suspects! I'm just eager to learn more and perhaps chase the white rabbit down a hole every now and then!
I am interested in the potential linkages between JTR and the Torso mysteries and in the possibility that two or more killers were at work in the same geographical area at the same time. I do not think this would be surprising given the melting pot metropolis that London represented in the 1880s.
I believe (and think that this is a popular opinion) that this would attract persons with many oddities (including serial killers, occultists, fetishists and the like) as a superior place to indulge themselves with anonymity and get away with it without the scrutiny that would occur in say a small village or town. In particular, the desperation and high density of people in the East End would have proven a ripe hunting ground for victims - either for mischief, robbery, exploitation, murder etc - with what appears to be a high number of 'black holes' which represent truly bad neighbourhoods for crime and the destitute.
So in saying that, I am intrigued by the timing of the JtR murders and the Torso mysteries. There is strong debate over who were actually JTR victims so I'm not going to kick that beehive until I form a more educated opinion. And there is strong debate over whether the torso mysteries were in fact murders or not.
However, I feel it is safe to assume that a certain level of nefarious activities were afoot with the Torso mysteries given that on an ordinary day I don't feel the urge to dismember dead bodies (whether death occurred by natural causes, my own hand, or the hand of someone else) and dump the pieces just for jolly. A crime was occurring and whoever committed the dismemberment and dumping appeared to be careful, organised, and not wanting not to be caught for it (ie. drawing limited attention and no leads).
When reading up on the threads here about JTR and the Torso mysteries I was struck by the time line and it put me in mind of Sean Gillis and Derrick Todd Lea in Baton Rouge. Gillis was a random killer who appeared to carefully plan and wait for the opportunity to present itself. He defied serial killer profiles. But one thing I found particularly interesting was that due to media coverage, he was very aware that he had a competitor in the area - Derrick Todd Lea- and didn't want to be outdone by this other 'unknown at the time' serial killer. He also apparently (I couldn't find a truly reliable source at this early stage) to want to 'up' his crimes according to how the media reported them.
Given how saturated the press was with JTR stories and the fear it whipped up in the East End, if there was another criminal around who was dumping bodies, then there is the possibility that person viewed JTR as a competitor for the public interest or dangerous for business given the increase in police presence. While this is just a musing from drawing a vague parallel between a situation involving two serial killers and the potential of two serial killers in 1888, I am struck with the timing of placing a torso in the construction site for the New Scotland Yard building. This seems a particularly daring and pointed deed rather than a random dumping. And given that this was done during the considerable press feeding frenzy over JTR, I could be tempted to suggest that another criminal was trying to make a point to the police and public like a 'Look at me! I've over here!' attention grab. It's romantic theorising at its very best since I've no evidence to back up any of it!
In any event, the 1888 police investigation into these crimes occurring simultaneously when there was such political and social pressure to solve the crimes would have caused a lot of consternation and like humans can be inclined to do; corners were cut, assumptions were made, more promising leads were followed up and connections were made or overlooked. I just hope to learn more, research the old files and maybe dig up some information that may help shed a tiny light on the overall situation. Would anyone be able to point me in the right direction for more information on the Torso mysteries? I have read the threads on here and on casebook so I am wondering if there is are different and reputable resources that people could point me to? I am happy and eager to start chasing some rabbits
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