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Old January 6th, 2018, 11:38 AM   #1
Jerry Dunlop
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Default Who is PC 434H?

Does anyone know who this PC Andrews is? PC Walter Andrews involved in the McKenzie case had a badge number of 272H in 1889.


Court case involving a younger John McCarthy (28).

Morning Advertiser (London)
17 November 1888


At the Thames Police Court yesterday, before Mr. Lushington, John M’Carthy, 28, was charged with being concerned in assaulting and robbing Michael Hadsburg, of 3, Well-street, Whitechapel.
Prosecutor said on Thursday evening he went into a public-house and had some drink, when he saw the prisoner, who said to him, "Are you ‘Jack the Ripper?’" He replied he was. Witness had some more drink, when prisoner suddenly caught hold of him and held him. Four or five other men then commenced knocking him about, and robbed him of 5s., which he had in his trousers pocket. All the men ran away, and the witness called out "Police!" The men were taking him to the police-station when they robbed him, and they then ran away.
Constable 434 H said while in Leman-street he heard cries of "Police!" and "Help!" He saw a crowd running. Prosecutor complained of being robbed and kicked by five men. Soon afterwards he gave prisoner into custody for robbing him. Prisoner said, "Prosecutor came into the house and said something about ‘Jack the Ripper.’ I said, ‘I believe he is "Jack the Ripper," and have a good mind to give him into custody.’ I then caught hold of him to give him into custody, as he was such a suspicious-looking man, when he called out ‘Police!’"
Prosecutor, recalled, said when prisoner asked him if he was "Jack the Ripper," he also looked round him and said, "Have you got any revolvers?"
Prisoner denied assaulting and robbing prosecutor, and called a witness.
The latter, a woman named Florence Murphy, said prosecutor was dancing about in the house, saying he was "Jack the Ripper." He also commenced writing, and had a lot of "Yankee notions" about him, and that caused a crowd to get about him. Prisoner did not take hold of prosecutor.
Mr. Lushington committed prisoner for trial.


This case one of the officers was accused of using bad language (calling the crowd Jews). Involves PC 434H and PC 437H.

London Standard
August 17, 1891




This case they give him a last name (Andrews) and he assaulted a couple in Well Street with witnesses David Barnett and Joseph Barnett. Address is close to the last case involving McCarthy on Well Street.

Times (London)
26 October 1892


At THAMES, Police-constable ANDREWS, 434 H, stationed at Leman-street, Whitechapel, was summoned for assaulting Mr. Lewis Cohen and Mrs. Sarah Cohen, living at 5, Well-street, Whitechapel. Mr. Jonathan Edward Harris prosecuted, and Mr. St. John Wontner, instructed by the Commissioners of Police, defended. Mr. Cohen said he carried on the business of an outfitter. About 2 o'clock on the afternoon of the 11th inst., he was standing outside his shop talking to two gentlemen. Defendant came up and said, "Now, then, clear out of this," and before he had time to move pushed him. Witness said, "Why? Isn't there room enough for you?" Defendant said, "Get inside or I will run you in." Later on witness went to the police-station and reported the defendant. While he was at the station Mrs. Cohen entered and also lodged a complaint. David Barnett and Joseph Barnett corroborated. The latter added that when Mr. Cohen went to the station his wife remonstrated with defendant, who pushed her into the shop, at the same time saying, "I would like to plug some of you." Mr. Wontner, for the defence, said the constable absolutely denied he intentionally pushed either of the complainants. As the people refused to let him pass he pushed his way through them. The defendant had been specially instructed to keep the pavement clear at that part. Mr. Dickinson said it was not the duty of the police to lay their hands on anybody unless they were going to take such persons into custody. The defendant had exceeded his duty. For the assault on Mrs. Cohen he would be fined 20s. and 23s. costs, and in the other case 20s. and 2s. costs.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 11:42 AM   #2
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Jerry

Interesting article ( good to see Montagu Williams putting the cops in their place ). I'll look for that badge number..
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Old January 6th, 2018, 11:51 AM   #3
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JD:

I came up with bupkes in the BNA.
Maybe someone else knows how to get it.
Sorry.....
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Old January 6th, 2018, 11:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
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JD:

I came up with bupkes in the BNA.
Maybe someone else knows how to get it.
Sorry.....
No problem, Howard. Thanks for trying.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 12:10 PM   #5
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In my original post I have David and Joseph Barnett as witnesses in the McCarthy case. They were actually witnesses in the assault on the Cohen's case. Sorry for the confusion. I'll revise the post.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 12:10 PM   #6
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Hi Jerry


just read your latest PM about Lewis Cohen, and just remembered a search I wanted to do to see if there was an Andrews at Leman St PS in 71 or 81 (had already checked 91). And there was - 1881, 74, Leman St, Police Station, Charles J Andrews, age 25, unmarried, police constable born Portsmouth.


Last night I looked at all the Andrews in the Met Police pensions and didn't find one to fit. I have now looked up Charles Andrews specifically and he isn't there. For some reason, he didn't qualify for a pension.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 12:22 PM   #7
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Hi Jerry


just read your latest PM about Lewis Cohen, and just remembered a search I wanted to do to see if there was an Andrews at Leman St PS in 71 or 81 (had already checked 91). And there was - 1881, 74, Leman St, Police Station, Charles J Andrews, age 25, unmarried, police constable born Portsmouth.


Last night I looked at all the Andrews in the Met Police pensions and didn't find one to fit. I have now looked up Charles Andrews specifically and he isn't there. For some reason, he didn't qualify for a pension.
Great! Thanks Robert.

I believe in the early part of 1891 the Leman Street station was still under construction. Did this guy show up in 1891? I wonder where they would have housed the officers during construction?
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Old January 6th, 2018, 12:33 PM   #8
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Nice going, Robert....
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Old January 6th, 2018, 12:34 PM   #9
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Hi Jerry


There were a few police officers living in a house in Leman St in 1891. As for Charles J(ames) Andrews, it looks like him at 26 Baroness Rd Bethnal Green. By then he has a wife Theresa whom he married in 1884.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 01:08 PM   #10
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He was at the same address in 1901, but now he is a dust inspector. I wonder if he got fired? Harvey ended up in a dusty situation after dismissal.
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