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Old 02-17-2008, 03:55 PM   #1
Vila
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Default Chat Log: 2-17-2008

This week's chat was a bit over-shadowed by the server crash suffered by Casebook: JTR this week. Everyone that came to today's chat was giving the topic a good try, but mostly we were using different words to agree with one another. More chatters, with more differences of opinion would have been better for this week's topic.

My thanks to everyone who showed. And further thanks go out to everyone who is helping to recover lost posts for the Casebook.

And now, for the chat log:

Session Start: Sun Feb 17 12:34:44 2008
Session Ident: #JTRForums
* Now talking in #JTRForums
* web.ircstorm.net sets mode: +nt
* ChanServ sets mode: +r
* Vila changes topic to 'Welcome! Today's Topic: "Did JTR pick the Murder Scenes?"'
* ChrisGeorge has joined #JTRForums
(Vila) Hello, Chris.
(ChrisGeorge) Hello Dan, how's things?
* kelly has joined #JTRForums
(Vila) Hello, Kelly.
(kelly) the usual suspects, looks like
(kelly) hello
* Dannn has joined #JTRForums
(Vila) Hello, Dan.
(Dannn) howdy
(kelly) There you are
(ChrisGeorge) Hello Dan

(TEXT SNIPPED: About half an hour of social chatting while we waited for more people to show up.)

(ChrisGeorge) I would guess that JtR selected the murder location in every place'
(Vila) Really? I disagree, Chris.
(kelly) nice segue Chris
(ChrisGeorge) Oh yeah?
(kelly) and I disagree too
(ChrisGeorge) You think he was a lucky killer then?
(Vila) I think that sometimes he just allowed the victims to lead him to a place where they were comfortable.
(ChrisGeorge) Okay
(ChrisGeorge) Went with the flow
(Dannn) depends what you mean by selected -- ahead of time or got there and said "good enough"?
(Vila) Exactly, Dan. I made the topic general enough to cover too many possibilities.
(kelly) Not necessarily lucky. As Vila touched on, the victims themselves were sometimes able to lead him to secluded areas, or possibly even familiar with the cop beats
(kelly) they didn't want to get caught either
(Vila) But my opinion is that he did not research & plan ahead as to where his next killing was to happen.
(kelly) I concur
(Vila) A lot would depend upon if he was a local, or someone slumming, and how familiar he was with the East End in particular.
(Vila) If he grew up there he would probably be far more familiar with the alleys and yards than if he was just a visitor.
(ChrisGeorge) Yes indeed the victims did lead the killer to a place but then he was able to use it and succeed
(ChrisGeorge) I agree that it seems a local man would be more liable to be able to use those locations.
(Vila) But one question in my mind is "can we tell if he knew the area extremely well, or if he was just wandering around without knowing exactly where he might be at any given time?"
(ChrisGeorge) Actually hard to know although I think it was less likely that he was a lucky visiting gentleman than that he was a local who knew the place
(Vila) The path that went past the graffito might indicate that he knew *that* area well.
(ChrisGeorge) Yes
(Vila) One doesn't even have to accept that JTR wrote the graffito. The bit of apron proves that he at least passed by the spot.
(ChrisGeorge) Yes it does
(ChrisGeorge) That at least is known
(Vila) What else can we tell about his knowledge of the different murder scenes?
(Dannn) well, at least that it was extremely likely, the old dog ran off with it excuse doesn't work for homework or Ripper stuff
(Vila) Does any one murder indicate that he was picking his playground?
(ChrisGeorge) I will just say that an outsider would have been pretty lucky to have succeeded every time
(Vila) For myself, all I can tell is that he was flexible about where he chose to kill.
(kelly) Chris, what makes you feel like he pre-selected?
(ChrisGeorge) Hi Kelly, I'm really not sure. I think rather he was going with what was available
(kelly) i thought you said earlier you thought he picked?
(kelly) "I would guess that he selected the locations in every place"
(Vila) I wonder if he felt a "need to kill" that built up over time, or if he was just simply easy to goad into a killing rage?
(Dannn) sorry, I've got about a million windows up trying to save Casebook cache files, this chat is flaking out on me
(kelly) I'm multitasking as well
(Dannn) going to have to reboot or something, see you
(Vila) What do we really know about JTR? That he killed several women, that he sometimes took internal organs with him when he left, that the coroner's reports indicated that he seemed to be right-handed...
(Vila) OK.
* Dannn has quit IRC (Quit: Dannn)
(ChrisGeorge) To be clear, I am not sure he pre-selected, but just picked what was available, and then just made the best use of opportunities as they presented
(Vila) I agree there, Chris.
(kelly) I must have misunderstood your previous comment then, sorry.
(Vila) But I wanted to see if anyone thought that one or more murder scenes could indicate JTR was picking his killing grounds himself - ahead of time, as it were.
(ChrisGeorge) If he is near a killing ground and goes with the woman to that location, he is in some sense choosing the location, that he has some sense where she is going to take him
(Vila) The trouble is that if the victims lead JTR to the places that they, themselves felt most comfortable with for their prostitution, then it would make it hard to tell if Jack knew the area extremely well or not.
(kelly) true in a way. if he knew the area, he would not agree to a place he didn't want
(kelly) his agreeing to go with them to a location means he didn't disapprove of it
(Vila) I suppose that if the victims felt safe in that place, it was a good indication for him to feel that he'd be free from discovery long enough to kill.
(ChrisGeorge) Hi Dan I think JtR had a certain amount of knowledge and may have been a local man, then let the victim lead him to location and took advantage of that situation
(Vila) I think that we're all saying pretty much the same thing, there.
(ChrisGeorge) So I think he used his local knowledge then took advantage of it to effect the murder
(kelly) case closed
(ChrisGeorge) ha ha
(ChrisGeorge) We better join up with Pat Cornwell then
(Vila) Actually, this topic would be better for a larger chat. More points of view to ponder, as it were.
(Vila) Is there a topic that we can disagree about that you'd like to switch to?
(Vila) Or suggestions for topics for another week?
(kelly) I'm sure we disagree on something
(Vila) I think the Casebook Forums crash has rather buggered up the chat for this week. Most folks are probably trying to re-register over there.
(Vila) Not to mention that I'm running low on suggestions for good topics for chats, here.
(Vila) Most topics have been chatted to death in the past. It's quite hard to find something that isn't just covering old ground for those people who have been hanging about in chatrooms for ages and ages.
(kelly) I'll try to help think some up
(Vila) We could argue about which victims should be included in the canon, for instance. Everyone seems to have a different opinion about that.
(Vila) Or if the presence of the Torso Killer indicated that there was more than one JTR running around the East End at that time.
(ChrisGeorge) Certainly the case has been talked to death but I think new information is being unearthed all the time
(kelly) I'm going to have to bow out. my multitasking had turned to uni-tasking and the other thing is winning.
(ChrisGeorge) The new info may not tell us who was Jack but at least it fills in details which may help identify the killer ultimately. Bye Kelly
(kelly) Chris, did you ever check out that limerick site i mentioned to you once?
(Vila) Sorry to see you go, Kelly, but I understand.
(ChrisGeorge) You might have to resend Kelly if you would
(ChrisGeorge) Too much happening here too
(Vila) Shall we call it quits for this chat? I've already decided to edit out all the social nattering we did before we got down to the topic-du jour.
(kelly) sent you info Chris, if it worked
(kelly) what? folks need to know about our coffee habits. it humanizes us!
(Vila) LOL!
(ChrisGeorge) Thanks, Kelly. Hi Dan, I guess I need to go off and do other stuff too, so let's close this one
(Vila) You really think that I need to leave all that stuff in?
(kelly) what the hey. your choice. later, all.
(Vila) OK, I suppose that to sum up todays chat: JTR seemed to let opportunity present itself rather than having a pre-planned spot for killing.
(kelly) works. bye
(Vila) Bye!
* kelly has left #JTRForums
(ChrisGeorge) I think it was both pre-planned and go with the flow if you see what I mean
(ChrisGeorge) Bye Dan
(Vila) Bye, Chris!
* ChrisGeorge has quit IRC (Quit: ChrisGeorge)
Session Close: Sun Feb 17 15:20:57 2008


Please do try to think of more topics for future chats, and post them in the "Suggestions For Topics" thread.

Thanks again to Chris George, Kelly, and Dan Norder for stopping by to chat this week.

Vila
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Old 02-17-2008, 04:41 PM   #2
AP Wolf
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You guys have to think of topics for chat?
Give me Grey Hunter, Chris Phillips and JM; and then let us discuss Harry Thaw, and I'll torch 'em better than Torchwood does.
Oh happy days.
In fact I'm feeling brave tonight, so if anyone feels like taking me on in a one to one about just why the Littlechild reference to Harry Thaw is a pile of crap then I'm up for that.
But I won't cancel any forthcoming holidays.
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