Jack The Ripper Forums  - Ripperology For The 21st Century  

Go Back   Jack The Ripper Forums - Ripperology For The 21st Century > Persons Of Interest or Actual Suspects > Jack-Out-of-the-Box

Jack-Out-of-the-Box Forum to explore out-of-the-box thinking in regards to Jack the Ripper and the Whitechapel Murders

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 23rd, 2017, 10:57 AM   #11
Debra Arif
Sausage brain
 
Debra Arif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AP Wolf View Post
Greetings Debs!
Would you mind sharing with me your research and thoughts on this before I take up the subject once again? Please!
I would if I had any, AP! Tom was having you on.
Debra Arif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2017, 11:48 AM   #12
Robert Linford
Researcher Extraordinaire
 
Robert Linford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,920
Default

AP, he was a schoolmaster at the Jews' Hospital and Orphan Asylum in Norwood.
Robert Linford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2017, 12:35 PM   #13
Robert Linford
Researcher Extraordinaire
 
Robert Linford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,920
Default

His case notes are online. For some reason they have him as Edward Raphael.
Robert Linford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2017, 01:25 PM   #14
AP Wolf
Author & Researcher
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,631
Default

Thanks Robert & Debs!
Tom joking?! My how the planet has shifted!
I must say that I am captivated by two items on the link that follows. One is that the Shine family were resident at 27 Dorset Street for some time; and the other that the said Nathan Shine was a 'Cats Meat Vendor'.
Now why does that grab my attention?
Robert my dear chap I have given up all alcohol that is over 14% proof, a civilised glass of red red wine is my sin these sunny days! And I'm pleased to say I was able to get rid of a 45 year old addiction for brandy and whisky by falling in love with a gorgeous lady who doesn't like stand up or fall down drunks!
Any chance Robert of sending me the link to that on line goldmine you prosper concerning Shine etc? Please!
http://www.mandy-janes.co.uk/SHINE/shines.htm
AP Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2017, 01:47 PM   #15
Robert Linford
Researcher Extraordinaire
 
Robert Linford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,920
Default

AP, ah, well cure of an addiction is good compensation for having to remember to leave the toilet seat down.


I don't have anything in particular on the Shines. Do you mean Abraham's case notes? I'll have to send them to you page by page because they're on Find My Past. Also maybe How will kindly put them on photobucket or Flicker or whatever it is so everyone can see them. He likes to save on his bandwidth.


If your email has changed please PM me the new one. I wrote to you at Christmas but didn't get a reply.
Robert Linford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2017, 02:33 PM   #16
AP Wolf
Author & Researcher
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,631
Default

Thanks Robert, but please don't worry about the case notes as I'm on that now, and I've sent you my new email.

The following is a quote from the fascinating link that How provided some three years ago, and I think we should all study it and take serious note of what the author is telling us:

'Raphael’s narrative of invasion of the female body clearly resonates with the Whitechapel Murders in several ways. First, Raphael’s status as London Jew allied him with those who came under intense scrutiny in 1888. Second, his fantasised violence against female reproduction, and its associations with aberrant sexuality leading to sexually-transmitted disease, repeats the activities of the Whitechapel murderer. Yet his narrative is also more complex than this. By narrating a clearly fictional version of himself as a latter-day Jack the Ripper, Raphael is associating himself both with the medical profession and the sexual psychopath who may have committed the crimes. The reason for the latter association is self-evident: Raphael is himself suffering from syphilitic dementia that has already undermined his mental stability. He presents this, from a patient’s fearful perspective, within the condition of an historical myth that stresses the gothic horror of such suffering as well as the gothic associations with the institution (Bedlam) in which he found himself. At the same time his present medical encounter colours his relationship with the attending physicians, and he incorporates into his myth-making fiction a view of their clinical investigations of his illness made equally horrific and transgressive. Indeed what Raphael’s historical analogy with the Whitechapel murderer achieves here is to offer an extreme critique of the depersonalised medical gaze by making that gaze monstrous and destructive, reinforcing the idea that the patient must be conceptualised as an integral part of biomedicine (Armstrong; Warner 1999).6 More radical, however, is Raphael’s association of his own position with the female victims of the Whitechapel murders. It is, after all, he and they, in his narrative, who are potential victims of both syphilis and medical intervention (horrifically perceived as that is). What this allows Raphael to register is both a fantasy of good health and recognition of the horror of illness. His re-enactment of Jack the Ripper is a mode of prevention in which the women (and he) are saved from the dangers of syphilis. Yet to imagine the women (and himself) as victims of Jack the Ripper is to acknowledge, too, his own destruction. To read Raphael’s fantastic narratives in the case notes from an historically-informed perspective is to gain access to his self-understanding of his condition in ways not otherwise possible. His Jack the Ripper narrative is an aesthetic enactment that comes to knowledge through collaboration with a myth-making history that exists beyond the medical encounter. To limit the narrative either to clinical concerns, or to presentist readings of the patient within the moments of the clinical experience, would be to deny it that knowledge.'
AP Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2017, 03:05 PM   #17
Robert Linford
Researcher Extraordinaire
 
Robert Linford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,920
Default

Hi AP


I think his position as a schoolmaster at a home for orphans would have coloured his views of pregnancy once madness took hold. I counted about 320 pupils in 1901.
Robert Linford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2017, 07:00 PM   #18
AP Wolf
Author & Researcher
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,631
Default

And he fed them a thousand eggs a minute, and then went down the local wine bar and drank a million pints of red wine with Jesus! I like him.
But on a serious note though, eh, the clinical staff at Bedlam diagnosed him with syphilis, but he maintained that he only had gonorrhoea, which is very very different, so we must see the end of the rainbow.
AP Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2017, 08:29 PM   #19
Anna Morris
Registered User
 
Anna Morris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Idaho, USA
Posts: 3,588
Default

A couple months ago I posted something on Nathan Shine. It was another of my incorrect ponderings but the basis of it was that Nathan Shine's story is similar to Israel Schwartz' tale. Nobody has ever exactly found Israel Schwartz as far as I know.

It was back in a month when Schwartz was a topic of the month and in a census search I had found a Nathan Szwarz which should be a Hungarian spelling that is = to the Germanic Schwartz. A number of these Szwarz ended up in Poland and it looks like most of them, at least those who retained the spelling, immigrated to the U.S.

Long story short, Nathan Shine is not Israel Schwartz. He is probably not Nathan Szwarz either. For what it's worth this is what I found.
__________________
If the shawl doesn't fit, you must acquit.~~Henry Flower, Casebook post
Anna Morris is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bedlam: Bethlehem Royal Hospital Archaic Asylums 77 March 18th, 2015 04:49 PM
Man 'smashed his baby daughter's skull with cinder block' Gumshoe Other Criminals, Murderers, & Murders 2 June 15th, 2011 09:52 PM
Kosminskis Block of Flats Mr. Poster Aaron Kosminski 7 January 7th, 2010 03:54 PM
Week of August 24th - 30th, 2009 Debbie D Weekly Caption Contest 93 August 31st, 2009 12:39 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10 Beta 2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright @ Howard & Nina Brown 2015-2022