Jack The Ripper Forums  - Ripperology For The 21st Century  

Go Back   Jack The Ripper Forums - Ripperology For The 21st Century > The Torsos

The Torsos Bodies and body parts found in the Thames River as well as in other locations prior to, during, and after the more celebrated Whitechapel Murders

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old August 22nd, 2017, 04:54 PM   #31
Anna Morris
Registered User
 
Anna Morris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Idaho, USA
Posts: 3,422
Default

I wonder how proficient doctors were at disarticulation during surgery? There are absolute horror stories about how amputations were performed, for example in the U.S. Civil War. That was 23 years before 1888 but how much had surgery advanced?
__________________
If the shawl doesn't fit, you must acquit.~~Henry Flower, Casebook post
Anna Morris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2017, 05:21 PM   #32
Cris Malone
Historian
 
Cris Malone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Jackson, Tennessee
Posts: 2,423
Cool

Well by then they had at least learned to associate microbes with diseases. Whether they could cut up a chicken properly for frying is another story.
__________________
Best Wishes,
Cris Malone
______________________________________________
"Objectivity comes from how the evidence is treated, not the nature of the evidence itself. Historians can be just as objective as any scientist."
Cris Malone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2017, 06:55 PM   #33
Trevor Marriott
Author & Researcher
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,978
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Debra Arif View Post
Trevor, no, Rutty is not making comment on the 1880's dismemberments, but he is giving his expert opinion based on his own experiences and observations and that of some of his colleagues on disarticulation through the joints and what that may suggest about a modern killer. Anna and I are discussing what relevance his professional observations may or may not have in these historical cases, given that people were more accustomed to cutting up animals etc. back then.

Hebbert thought the disarticulation an indicator of occupation and he lived in the period. I suggested earlier that this either means it still had the same significance as far as he was concerned, even though a larger number of people would probably have the skill or maybe he was downplaying the capability of a member of his profession being able to do it quickly and with skill by saying they do not practice this in daily life.
Do you have an opinion on this question?
My only opinion is as before and that is that all of the torsos were not killed by the same hand. This is partly based on the fact that there is no evidence to suggest all the torsos were in fact murder victims, and with regards to the dismembering I go along with what Dr Biggs says, and also when he says that much of what Victorian doctors stated back then was at times nothing more than guesswork, and he has given several examples of this.

But of course you never know something may come along in the future to make me re think this

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Trevor Marriott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2017, 01:11 PM   #34
Abby Normal
Registered User
 
Abby Normal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Debra Arif View Post
Criminal Dismemberment: Forensic and Investigative Analysis Hardcover 15 Jun 2017
by Sue Black (Editor), Guy Rutty (Editor), Sarah V. Hainsworth (Editor), Grant Thomson (Editor)

This academic book was released in June 2017 and Chapter Two 'Dismemberment a Historical Perspective' has a section on the Thames Torso Murders (the author's wording not mine, Trevor!)

The historical section is by Shane McCorristine and the research was funded by the Wellcome Trust as part of the 'Harnessing the Power of the Criminal Corpse' project (2011-2016) at the University of Leicester, Leicester.

Kate Webster's murder of Julia Thomas is also listed in the index.

Included in the historical chapter is a section titled 'Conclusion: The Dismembering Serial Killer' which sounds as though it is a section which gives an opinion on the likelihood of one perpetrator in these historical cases.

I've quoted Forensic Pathologist Guy Rutty in these torso threads recently in relation to a previous chapter on dismemberment in another forensic textbook. Like Hebbert did in his time, Rutty also apparently suggested that disarticulation through the joints, rather than cutting through bone, might suggest anatomical knowledge and the perpetrator a butcher.
There's also a M.J. Biggs acknowledged in this book, not sure if it's Trevor's Dr Biggs or not.

The book is on sale at 63.99 so it's definitely one to borrow! !
Does anyone have access to this book? Several ( but not enough!) pages are available to read in the Amazon listing with the 'Look Inside' feature.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1482236281/ref=rdr_ext_tmb
nahhh. Ill wait for yours! Hi Debs : )
Abby Normal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2017, 01:17 PM   #35
Abby Normal
Registered User
 
Abby Normal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna Morris View Post
All of us young housewives used to know how to cut up a chicken....

What you say is valid to a point but there are a number of other things to consider. The killer(s) could have grown up in the country. Could have worked in the meat industry. What about larger households and great estates? How many people would have been in service working to prepare large meals that could have entailed portioning meat from a half or quarter carcass? What about restaurant workers?

(Maybe we could work a royal cook in here somewhere. Queen Victoria's chef....?)
I'm thinking ships cook
Abby Normal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2017, 11:24 AM   #36
Melville
Registered User
 
Melville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 10
Default Boar Hunter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
I'm thinking ships cook
Hi all

Each boar hunter always has his knife on him to slaughter the beast and empty it with his blood, then open the belly to give as a reward the best offal for the dogs ....
Melville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2017, 01:35 AM   #37
Pipeman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 75
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
I'm thinking ships cook
Charles Brown, Whitehall Inquest: He struck a light, and I saw in the corner what looked like an old coat with a piece of ham inside.
Pipeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10 Beta 2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright @ Howard & Nina Brown 2015-2022