Antecedents of Grainger & Sadler

[Anna Morris]

In a press report Alice said he threw her down and then she felt the knife "enter" her. I thought that was an odd way to say she got stabbed in the abdomen. Now we understand more.

Then she said she got up to walk and there was a lot of blood. She became "swimmy" and collapsed.

Grainger apparently discarded his knife which was found by police and didn't try to get away as did JtR. Considering that some thought he could be Jack, did they keep his knife in the Black Museum or anywhere?

Still, it was a sloppy job for JtR. But what about Emma Smith's attacker(s)? I personally think there is a difference between an attacker that kills and mutilates and an attacker who inflicts deadly objects in living victims' vaginas with intent to cause great damage and pain. To me that is a very different thing. I have always said whoever did whatever to Emma Smith was worse than JtR.

[Howard Brown]

Anna:

Good points.
One thing which might take him out of the equation is that he didn't subdue his victim to the extent the Whitechapel Murderer had back in 1888.

Personally, for what its worth I don't think the Ripper was necessarily a sadist....but whoever did what they did to Emma Smith and Alice Graham were. Just an opinion at this point in time.

[Debra Arif]

In a press report Alice said he threw her down and then she felt the knife "enter" her. I thought that was an odd way to say she got stabbed in the abdomen. Now we understand more.

Then she said she got up to walk and there was a lot of blood. She became "swimmy" and collapsed.

Grainger apparently discarded his knife which was found by police and didn't try to get away as did JtR. Considering that some thought he could be Jack, did they keep his knife in the Black Museum or anywhere?

Still, it was a sloppy job for JtR. But what about Emma Smith's attacker(s)? I personally think there is a difference between an attacker that kills and mutilates and an attacker who inflicts deadly objects in living victims' vaginas with intent to cause great damage and pain. To me that is a very different thing. I have always said whoever did whatever to Emma Smith was worse than JtR.

I've never seen that written. I know she was stabbed in the vagina because Rob Clack looked at the London Hospital Record of her admission and saw it written there.

[Howard Brown]

Here it is Debs

Sheffield Evening Telegraph
February 27, 1895
**************

[Debra Arif]

Here it is Debs

Sheffield Evening Telegraph
February 27, 1895
**************

Thanks How. But we've been talking about this for 10 years at least though and until Rob looked at the records, we didn't know she was stabbed in the vagina...did we?

[Howard Brown]

Debs:

Not until Rob brought it out, did we know where on her person she was stabbed/assaulted precisely.

I posted the Sheffield paper as an example of Graham's reaction to being stabbed.

[Anna Morris]

Jerry Dunlop found a report on another case involving Grainger in England in 1891 and I was able to bump it up.

[Howard Brown]

Anna:

Just saw that. Thanks.....

Its 1888 which eludes us all....alas.

[Jerry Dunlop]

Jerry Dunlop found a report on another case involving Grainger in England in 1891 and I was able to bump it up.

Thanks Anna!

Interesting that Howard's OP has Grainger in the Fulham Workhouse on Jan 30, 1891. The news clip I found was dated on January 31st, 1891 and Grainger says he had been sleeping under the Wellington Statue for 5 nights. He was fined 2s 6d or 4 days. The question is then, when was he in Fulham Workhouse? Before or after this event. I say this because Frances Coles was murdered 13 days after the news report.

[Jerry Dunlop]

I didn't look close enough. It was from Jan 30- Feb12th. We know he was in London at the right time for that one.

[Anna Morris]

This is a clip from a page on a JtR Tours web site. Much of what is written is backed up with news clippings but there are a few things here I have not yet seen in contemporary reports.