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Old October 17th, 2015, 12:41 PM   #21
Gary Barnett
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The John in Southwark was born in the City, so he seems to tie in to the Bishopsgate individual. Perhaps the JA in Duval Street was his son, born 1876.
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Old October 17th, 2015, 01:10 PM   #22
Robert Linford
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No John Arundell at #10 in 1901. No #10 at #10 in 1901. Or in 1911.

Re the Oyers, this is from 1903 :
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Old October 17th, 2015, 01:17 PM   #23
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Father and son is looking promising.

In 1891 father and wife Catherine are shown as living at 9, Dorset Street on their daughter Mary Lilian's christening record. Father's occupation is Manager of Lodging House.

Son marries Mary Ann Leary in Jan, 1901, while living in Silvester Street.

In March, 1905, son and wife Mary Anne are shown living at 28, Whites Row on their son Valentine John's christening record. Son's occupation is Lodging House Deputy.
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Old October 17th, 2015, 01:23 PM   #24
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FYI, 28, Whites Row backed on to 9/10, Dorset Street and was also owned by the Oylers. John Sr and Jr were obviously Oylers' employees.
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Old October 17th, 2015, 01:36 PM   #25
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9/10, Dorset Street and 28, White's Row are essentially the same building. The stippling denotes the Oylers' ownership.

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Old October 17th, 2015, 01:58 PM   #26
Robert Linford
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That would explain it then, Gary.

Who are these Oyer dudes?
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Old October 17th, 2015, 02:13 PM   #27
Gary Barnett
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Quote:
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That would explain it then, Gary.

Who are these Oyer dudes?
If there were any 'Lords of Spitalfields', they were it . They could have bought up all the other guys out of their small change. I think they were originally market traders / bakers, but branched out in various directions and were very successful. This is a description of their premises in The Ratcliffe Highway.


About the best sample of this kind of establishment extant will be found at St. George's chambers, St. George's-street, London-docks (vulgo, Ratcliff-highway), a thorough poor man's hotel where a comfortable bed with use of sitting-room, cooking apparatus and fire, and laundry accommodation, soap included, can be had for 4d. a night, all kinds of provisions being obtainable in the bar at proportionate rates. To any one interested in the condition of the London poor, this establishment is well worth a journey to the East-end to visit.
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Old October 17th, 2015, 02:21 PM   #28
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That would explain it then, Gary.

Who are these Oyer dudes?
Robert,

The 1891 census is a bit confusing because it omits some of the Dorset St. numbers and just says 'Lodging House'. I think the confusion is now cleared up. Arundel ran 9/10 for the Oylers, then moved to Southwark to manage their Silvester St. premises. At some point his son (also John) came back to Spitalfields to work as a deputy at 28, White's Row and in some capacity at 10, Dorset Street. (Same building).

So that's 2 JAs. Is it possible that the Wood Street coal heaver is yet another?

Gary.
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Old October 17th, 2015, 03:24 PM   #29
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The Oylers also had a large lodging house at 203/7 Poplar High Street, and from no. 201 they ran their East London Cake Company.

They were involved in a high profile legal case in 1886 which they successfully defended against the Trustees of St. Saviours Rectory. The Oylers had contracted to buy the Cross Bones Burial Ground in Southwark, an unconsecrated cemetery where prostitutes (Winchester Geese) had been buried since the Middle Ages. They paid a deposit of 230.00 against the 2,300.00 price but refused to complete because under the terms of the recently passed (1884) Disused Burial Grounds Act they were prevented from building on the site.

The case initially went against them but they won their appeal in the High Court.
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Old October 17th, 2015, 03:55 PM   #30
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Thanks Gary.

Re the coal heaver, the Arundells did seem to give themselves occupations which may or may not have been genuine, e.g. 'crane driver' and I think I've seen 'stevedore.' But 15 Wood St wasn't, apparently, a lodging house in 1891. Isaac Rosenthall and family had it.
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