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33. Other Don't agree with any of the preceding 32? Got your own ideas? Tell us about them in here.

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Old April 11th, 2009, 02:19 PM   #11
Howard Brown
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As an aside to the thread that Lars has set up ( Thanks Lars...its a good choice,by the way)....

I can envision the Ripper being on the hunt but not being selective in where he was "hunting"...and I could also see him choosing what he considered to be the best area to conduct his hunting on the nights in question as well...which could explain the gaps in time between Chapman & the Double Event, since his selected area(s) had no prey at the time for whatever reason. In any event,keep at it,Lars...I like your idea...thats for you.
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Old April 11th, 2009, 02:23 PM   #12
dougie
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Hi Dougie

A number of things are problematical for Jacks having just waited until someone came along.

1. I cannot imagine there was much traffic through places such as where Chapman ended up.

2. Hanging around selecting a victim simply cannot have been a good plan after the first two?

p
We might be dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic here (not me- jack) We dont know jack had murder in his mind when he set out on those nights. As you have said before something might have set off a chain of events in seconds. .....an unpremeditated explosion.Maybe an invasion of personal space issue, None of the sites seem a part of a LOGICAL plan.Im sure he could have found many safer (from his point of view) locations.
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Old April 11th, 2009, 02:34 PM   #13
Sam Flynn
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Now....if you'd be so kind....can we get back to attacking the foundations of the Hunter Ripper notion?
Gladly, MrP - as long as we don't get into areas that aren't strictly relevant to the topic; for instance, asking questions like "Can you give me one example where Jack displayed local knowledge?". Many people go on hunting trips to Africa without ever having visited the country before (although they do tend to use local guides when they get there, which helps), so the "local/non-local" dichotomy doesn't strictly apply to the question of the "predatory techniques" used by the Ripper. He could have employed those techniques whether he was a local boy or not.
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Old April 11th, 2009, 02:40 PM   #14
Mr. Poster
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HI ho SamF

The fact remains....in all the murders we have no evidence whatsoever of any kind of stalking, hunting, planning (either before the event or after it) or scheming as to locations.

All the murder scenarios are suggestive of serendipitous contacts between victim and killer.

In that case it is illogical to assume that the killer was out that night looking for someone to kill and it is possible, and possibly probable, that the interaction between killer and victim only took a turn for the worse as a result of some trigger or sequence of them.

In that case it is fundamentally flawed and completely irrelevant to be talking abouot hunting grounds in the same way it is irrelevant to describe a man walking a dog as being on his hunting ground.

p
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Old April 11th, 2009, 02:45 PM   #15
Sam Flynn
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All the murder scenarios are suggestive of serendipitous contacts between victim and killer.
I wouldn't dispute that - no "stalker", he.
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In that case it is fundamentally flawed and completely irrelevant to be talking abouot hunting grounds.
Not so - he had to be in the right place at the right time, at the very least. Serendipity can't help those who aren't there.
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Old April 11th, 2009, 02:56 PM   #16
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Hi ho SamF

"Hunting grounds" imply an area where someone is actively (proactively) hunting.

If someone is a in field every week doing something like going to check his hay in another field and maybe every so often he has his gun, is in the mood and a crow lands very close and he shoots him......that doesnt make that field his hunting ground.

It makes it a field on his wat to his hay field. Where sometimes something gets killed.

Perhaps he gets a little buzz out of leaving crow corpses for his neighbour farmer to pick up.

That nothing gets killed in his field does not mean that he lives in the field where things get killed. Nor does it mean that things dont get killed in his hay field by other means. Like poisoning the crows.

p
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Old April 11th, 2009, 03:37 PM   #17
Pilgrim
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Default Paradoxical Case of Adrian Babb.

hunting ground

n 1: a place where opportunities abound
n 2: an area in which game is hunted


~~~

The Case of Adrian Babb


Between January 1986 and March 1988, seven attacks on elderly women took place in tower blocks in south Birmingham. Women aged in their 70s and 80s, often infirm, were followed into the lifts by a stocky young man who overpowered them and took them to the top floor of the tower block, sometimes carrying them up the last two flights of stairs to the landing near the roof. There he raped them and escaped. Consistent patterns appeared to suggest the work of the same man. The offender had a limited repertoire of locations, victims and actions, which suggested a man operating in a constrained world. Canter noticed that the tower blocks were like islands surrounded by major dual carriageways.

Victims reported the attacker as black, athletic, without body odours and carrying a sports bag. After the first offence he made no attempt to disguise himself; so he had no fear that he would be recognized locally — the paradox of deep familiarity of tower blocks with the confidence in anonymity.

Source: Canter, Criminal Shadows (1995).

~~~

It should be noted that the perception of structure of identity may arise in several ways. There may be little in the real object that is remarkable, yet it has gained identity and organization through long familiarity. At the other end of the scale, an object seen for the first time may have strong structure or identity solely because of vivid and striking physical features, which impose their pattern upon the observer. Contrariwise, an object seen for the first time may be identified or related neither through familiarity nor physical vividness, but because it conforms to a stereotype already constructed by the observer.


Source: Lynch, The Image of The City (1960).
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Old April 11th, 2009, 03:57 PM   #18
Sam Flynn
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"Hunting grounds" imply an area where someone is actively (proactively) hunting.
Clearly, this chap wasn't pottering in the back yard of Hanbury Street at past 5AM, just happened to be in Buck's Row at 3AM, or Mitre Square at half past one in the morning. So, if he didn't actively lead his victims there, he at least accompanied them to their final destinations.

That is not the action of someone idly leaving poison out to serendipitously poison a crow, neither is it the action of a stalker - but it's certainly the action of someone pursuing his victim, whichever way you look at it. He doesn't just "cut them down where they stand" - he goes after them, or leads them somewhere himself, and he does so purposely.

Furthermore, he comes pre-equipped with a razor-sharp knife. After using this weapon, he ends up with some blood-staining and rather incriminating (organic) evidence on his person, so one must assume he comes equipped with an exit-strategy as well - or, at least, he feels that he can get to ground quickly and safely.

And he does all this... on a whim?
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Old April 11th, 2009, 04:02 PM   #19
Howard Brown
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From Lars:

"A number of things are problematical for Jacks having just waited until someone came along.

Issue 1. I cannot imagine there was much traffic through places such as where Chapman ended up.
Issue 2. Hanging around selecting a victim simply cannot have been a good plan after the first two?

Alternative views to each:

1. Evidently the backyard in Hanbury Street had been frequented for kneetremblers prior to Chapman's murder. I seem to recall a reference to that very possibility/fact somewhere before...

2. That might not fly,Lars...considering the location of what and where you might consider the first murder to have occurred.

Had the first been Tabram, I for one see no issue with him traipsing the area up around the London Hospital for the August 31st murder. It had been 24 days since the Tabram murder

Had the first been Nichols, he may have been walking around the vicinity of Hanbury Street and coincidentally come across Chapman and then been taken to the backyard on Hanbury Street. I think that in this specific murder more so than any other,the victim did the steering to the location where said victim was found.



I'm glad you put this thread together Lars.
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Old April 11th, 2009, 04:05 PM   #20
Howard Brown
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Sam:

A LOT of people walked around in the East End with knives with zero kills and a lot of piss and vinegar in their systems. Look at Ludwig.

In addition...just as a sidebar Sam...isn't it possible that the Ripper had conducted sexual liasons with women before,during,and even after October...with no "trigger" which unleashed whatever was unleashed on the victims from Tabram to Eddowes?
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