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Mysteries Within The Mystery Forum for researchers to list what they feel are the most uncanny mysteries within the greater mystery....the identity and motive of the Whitechapel Murderer

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Old Today, 02:36 AM   #341
Mr. Poster
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It only stands to reason that if the doctors had to return to the murder scene, that they were looking for medical evidence. Any other kind of evidence would have been the responsibility of Abberline.
Something of a medical nature was missing.
Its clearly stated that both the police and the doctors returned to the room to deal with the ashes.

And given the nature of Things back then.....its probably more correct to say that they were looking for something technical/forensic rather than medical.

p
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Old Today, 02:49 AM   #342
Debra Arif
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That seems fairly detailed.

There is also the following; not the same, but to add to the pile: 'Thereafter the doctors and police went back to Millers Court. Why did they do this just for fun? Or to look for the remaining body parts ? if the latter they probably found what was still missing, and that would account for the absence of the heart on the list of body parts ...'
To be fair to Trevor, that wasn't word word for word what Trevor said as I don't have the PM anymore but I posted the same summary of the impression I had got from Trevor's PM's about the possible finding of the heart in the grate to the boards at the time and Trevor didn't claim I had misunderstood him at all. It's on a thread where I also ask if there was a post mortem at Shoreditch mortuary and who was there as Trevor at that time was saying in his PM's to me that that didn't happen.

That is a similar idea you have picked out from Trevor's posts, minus the finding in the grate of course, but also suggesting a finding the heart somewhere in the room at a later date.
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Old Today, 03:13 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by Debra Arif View Post
To be fair to Trevor, that wasn't word word for word what Trevor said as I don't have the PM anymore but I posted the same summary of the impression I had got from Trevor's PM's about the possible finding of the heart in the grate to the boards at the time and Trevor didn't claim I had misunderstood him at all. It's on a thread where I also ask if there was a post mortem at Shoreditch mortuary and who was there as Trevor at that time was saying in his PM's to me that that didn't happen.

That is a similar idea you have picked out from Trevor's posts, minus the finding in the grate of course, but also suggesting a finding the heart somewhere in the room at a later date.
I realised it wasn't word-for-word what Trevor had said, but it was an impressive summary and unlikely to be something you had misremembered.
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Old Today, 03:13 AM   #344
Trevor Marriott
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Trevor,
No, you are wrong.

A small portion only of the remains is missing, while it is noticeable as a special incident in the barbarous murder that the organ hitherto taken away at the mutilations was found in the room, although it had been cut out of the body...

This is a cumbersom was of saying that a small part of Kelly's body was missing but it was noticeable [to be observed or of particular interest] that an organ [the uterus] hithero [before or previously] taken at the mutilations [plural, meaning in earlier cases] had been removed from the body but was in the room.

I'm afraid your reading makes no sense. There is no hint of an interval between the statement that a portion was missing and the statement that the organ had been found in the room. There is no suggestion that the missing portion was looked for and found. There is definitely no reason to suppose that the missing portion and the organ were one and the same.

It would be saying that a small portion of the body [the heart] was missing but that it was of particular interest that the part just said to be missing was in the room.

The sentence is clumsy but there is no ambiguity in its meaning: the heart was missing but the uturus was present.

Sorry.
Lets see where do you exactly stand on this issue? I would be obliged if you simply answer the questions and not include at this time your own opinions

Do you accept that the doctors were only able to do a cursory examination of the body at Millers Court?

Do you also accept that the ambiguous statement regarding the missing heart from the pericardium was also made at that time and noted down by it would seem now Dr Percy Clarke who was Phillips assistant.

Do you accept that the newspapers in their early editions suggested that an organ or organs were missing

Do you accept that in the later editions they stated that no organs were missing?

Do you accept the definition of the word "hitherto" is defined as "until now, or until the point in time under discussion"

More to follow

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Old Today, 03:51 AM   #345
Debra Arif
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The statements in the press that the heart had been removed and taken away but the information kept under wraps, was in fact reported after the inquest had closed and well after the earlier reports that the organ missing in some previous cases ( the uterus) was thought to be missing but had since been found (in the corner of the bed was it?) and that no organs were missing.
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Old Today, 04:11 AM   #346
Trevor Marriott
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The statements in the press that the heart had been removed and taken away but the information kept under wraps, was in fact reported after the inquest had closed and well after the earlier reports that the organ missing in some previous cases ( the uterus) was thought to be missing but had since been found (in the corner of the bed was it?) and that no organs were missing.
Debs
That not quite correct, the inquest was on 13th, the newspapers came out before that took place stating nothing was missing.

Times Nov 10th
Echo Nov 12th
Times Nov 12th

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Old Today, 04:23 AM   #347
Jon Simons
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Debs
That not quite correct, the inquest was on 13th, the newspapers came out before that took place stating nothing was missing.

Times Nov 10th
Echo Nov 12th
Times Nov 12th

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The inquest was on Mon 12th
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Old Today, 04:40 AM   #348
Trevor Marriott
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The inquest was on Mon 12th
Jon

Thank you for putting me right I misread it

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