The solved torso murders

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  • Maria Birbili
    historian/musicologist
    • Aug 2010
    • 1654

    #16
    Originally posted by Debra Arif
    So, you are saying there were no torso type murders in France during Autumn 88 when the Ripper was about in London, and none June 89-June 91 when Le Grand was in prison {...} and none November 1891 to 1907 when he was in prison again and none 1908 to 1917 when he was in prison again and then deported?
    Yes, but I've only looked until 1891, not later. And only for Paris (in the Paris morgue register and in the press).

    Originally posted by Debra Arif
    We are even told in all four torso cases that the bodies had not been dismembered the way medical students or anatomists would dissect them.
    I have no info about this, but I'm assuming that Victorian medical examiners used specific saws, like today's Striker saw (albeit not electrical). Of course, someone else could have bought or stolen such a saw.
    Best regards,
    Maria

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    • Debra Arif
      Registered User
      • Jan 2007
      • 11232

      #17
      Yes, but I've only looked until 1891, not later. And only for Paris (in the Paris morgue register and in the press).
      So, are you saying you see significance in the fact no torso type murders were committed in Paris late 88, or 89 to the end of 1891 when Le Grand was locked up in England, but no significance in the fact that one of the torso murders of the four London ones that occurred 87-89 was committed when Le Grand was in prison in September 1889 and one when he was on remand May to June 89 (eventually sent to prison in June 89)
      Are you proposing a link between the 86 Paris torso and the London ones?


      I have no info about this, but I'm assuming that Victorian medical examiners used specific saws, like today's Striker saw (albeit not electrical). Of course, someone else could have bought or stolen such a saw.
      I think anatomists used specific recognisable dissection methods and practiced them often. This didn't appear to be the case in any of the four London torsos.

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      • Maria Birbili
        historian/musicologist
        • Aug 2010
        • 1654

        #18
        I'm not necessarily seeing any significance or proposing a link between the Paris and the London torso murders, Debs. Could very well be a coincidence. I'm not even proposing that the Paris torso murders were linked between each other, since we have so little information about them, literally no press reports apart from JUST the one in 1886.

        On the other side, just playing devil's advocate, one could argue that Le Grand could have asked a minion to drop a torso while he was in jail in 1889, Bianchi/Compton-style. (I'm referring to the "hillside stranglers" here.) I'm not saying that he did!
        Best regards,
        Maria

        Comment

        • Debra Arif
          Registered User
          • Jan 2007
          • 11232

          #19
          Originally posted by Maria Birbili
          I'm not necessarily seeing any significance or proposing a link between the Paris and the London torso murders, Debs. Could very well be a coincidence. I'm not even proposing that the Paris torso murders were linked between each other, since we have so little information about them, literally no press reports apart from JUST the one in 1886.
          Oh, my mistake then, Maria.You seemed to find some significance in the fact Le Grand was locked up during a 'lull' in the French torso finds although the length of that lull, compared to the length of time Le Grand was actually in prison beyond 1891, doesn't seem to have been noted.

          On the other side, just playing devil's advocate, one could argue that Le Grand could have asked a minion to drop a torso while he was in jail in 1889, Bianchi/Compton-style. (I'm referring to the "hillside stranglers" here.) I'm not saying that he did!
          Why do I get the feeling that's exactly what you are saying! LOL

          Comment

          • Maria Birbili
            historian/musicologist
            • Aug 2010
            • 1654

            #20
            Anyone (hypothetically speaking!) writing a suspect book on Le Grand would have to at least discuss the possibility of linkage to the torso murders, in London or in Paris. What I'm seeing as potentially VERY dangerous with such a discussion is how to avoid making the suspect sound like an omnipresent boogieman, Sickert-like. Lol.
            Best regards,
            Maria

            Comment

            • Debra Arif
              Registered User
              • Jan 2007
              • 11232

              #21
              Originally posted by Maria Birbili
              Anyone (hypothetically speaking!) writing a suspect book on Le Grand would have to at least discuss the possibility of linkage to the torso murders, in London or in Paris. What I'm seeing as potentially VERY dangerous with such a discussion is how to avoid making the suspect sound like an omnipresent boogieman, Sickert-like. Lol.
              Are you writing a book on Le Grand then, Maria?

              Comment

              • Maria Birbili
                historian/musicologist
                • Aug 2010
                • 1654

                #22
                I'm writing a book on Rossini. (NOT as a Ripper suspect, lol.) :-)
                Best regards,
                Maria

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