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Mysteries Within The Mystery Forum for researchers to list what they feel are the most uncanny mysteries within the greater mystery....the identity and motive of the Whitechapel Murderer

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Old June 17th, 2017, 04:04 PM   #151
Beth Bennett
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But you didnt do any of this in almost total darkness did you? and the cadavers had already been opened up, and were no doubt devoid of blood and the said organs as you say were in effect already there for you reach in and identify. A bit different to what happened in Mitre Square in 1888.

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This is all true. There was embalming fluid present, but it didn't take up even half of the abdominal cavity. And although identification truly was done mostly by reaching in and grabbing the organ, vessel, etc., it definitely was not done in darkness. There were fluorescent lights above each cadaver. We had to have that to see the question numbers. Although you did have to pull out as far as you could, some of the organs, etc. to see the question number. I also had the benefit of surgical gloves.
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Old June 17th, 2017, 04:52 PM   #152
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Hi all,

With regard to the killer having possessed anatomical knowledge or surgical skill, it must be said that a great gulf exists between the two. Anatomical knowledge could easily have been gleaned from medical textbooks, or from working in an abattoir. Skilled surgery is a different matter altogether.

The Education Act of 1870 didn't include human biology in its curriculum, emphasis being placed on the three R's.

As a layman possessed of some anatomical knowledge I could, myself, identify the location of any of the body's major organs. Extracting these organs would only involve the will to do it.

Dr Percy Clarke and Inspector Edmund Reid both believed the organs to have been clumsily removed.

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Old June 18th, 2017, 06:45 PM   #153
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Dr Gordon Brown opined that the killer of Eddowes was possessed of anatomical knowledge. That's surely not in dispute?

Had Brown spotted the hand of a skilled surgeon he would have had no qualms in stating such in his post mortem report. It's worth remembering that, by 1888, Brown had clocked up over twenty years' experience as a surgeon. As far as the City police were concerned Brown wasn't just another police surgeon. He was the police surgeon.

I have little doubt that men like Brown brought all their experience and knowledge to bear on the investigation.

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Old June 19th, 2017, 01:56 AM   #154
Lynn Cates
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Hello Sean. Now you are talking.

Of course, there is the line about the kidney being "carefully" removed--if I recall properly. But Kate's uterus was basically hacked out. Moreover, she was a victim of "unskillful mutilations." (Baxter)

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Old June 19th, 2017, 03:26 AM   #155
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Dr Gordon Brown opined that the killer of Eddowes was possessed of anatomical knowledge. That's surely not in dispute?

Had Brown spotted the hand of a skilled surgeon he would have had no qualms in stating such in his post mortem report.
He could only opine the first if he assumed that he was after a kidney. That is the only criteria that could be used to assess his anatomical knowledge based on his removing a kidney.

But if he wasnt after a kidney and just took whatever came to hand (a kidney being the only thing in there that could come to hand) ... then he had essentially no anatomical knowledge.

Browns assessment is based on the assumption that the ripper wanted a kidney. Thats fair enough if one assumes he was trying to get one. If one doesnt assume that and instead assumes that a kidney was the most convenient thing to take based on its shape, texture and size relative to the rest of whats in there...... then the assumption of anatomical knowledge doesn't really hold water.

Browns assessment should have included the qualifier that if one accepts the notion that the perpetrator was desiring a kidney then his having gotten one could have been indicative of a certain anatomical knowledge. If one doesnt Accept that notion then there was no evidence of any knowledge at all.

The second point as to surgical skill is quite valid however.

p
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Old June 19th, 2017, 10:25 AM   #156
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Of course, it may be that the killer had great surgical skill, but the possibility is rather remote - it would involve the killer deliberately disguising his skill
and operating like an amateur.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 12:54 PM   #157
Scott Nelson
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The Lusk Letter and kidney portion probably went a long way towards fueling the assumption that the killer was after the kidney and had, therefore, deliberately removed it.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 02:18 PM   #158
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A good point as to Lusk.

I still think that was a hoax kidney though.

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Old June 19th, 2017, 06:21 PM   #159
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Of course, it may be that the killer had great surgical skill, but the possibility is rather remote - it would involve the killer deliberately disguising his skill
and operating like an amateur.
True, but today, even a first class mechanic might rebuild part of an engine in half a day, but what would it look like if he only had 30 minutes?
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Old June 19th, 2017, 06:25 PM   #160
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True, but today, even a first class mechanic might rebuild part of an engine in half a day, but what would it look like if he only had 30 minutes?
A partly built engine !

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