Bucks Row Project

[Caroline Brown]

The ones used for boiling cat's meat were called coppers and there are descriptions of workmen stirring the meat, so presumably they weren't pressurised. On one occasion a worker at a Wolverhampton yard fell into an open copper.

A bit drastic, Gary, just to put a little something in the kitty.

Reminds me of the butcher who walked backwards into his bacon slicer. He got behind with his orders.

At least the chap who fell into his upholstery loom came out of it completely recovered.

Unlike the French polisher who fell into his varnish. He perished but had a lovely finish.

He didn't have a lot of luck. He'd previously been in the fluorescent light trade and his business went down the tubes.

Love,

Caz
X

[Gary Barnett]

A bit drastic, Gary, just to put a little something in the kitty.

Reminds me of the butcher who walked backwards into his bacon slicer. He got behind with his orders.

At least the chap who fell into his upholstery loom came out of it completely recovered.

Unlike the French polisher who fell into his varnish. He perished but had a lovely finish.

He didn't have a lot of luck. He'd previously been in the fluorescent light trade and his business went down the tubes.

Love,

Caz
X

Did you hear about the brewery worker who drowned in a beer copper? It took him 5 hours to die. Why so long? He had to get out ten times for a slash.


BTW the Wolverhampton worker only had one leg (no punchline, it's true). Miraculously he survived.

[Caroline Brown]

BTW the Wolverhampton worker only had one leg (no punchline, it's true). Miraculously he survived...

...to audition for the role of Tarzan, presumably?

Love,

Caz
X

[Steve Blomer]

...to audition for the role of Tarzan, presumably?

Love,

Caz
X

Indeed, at least with the swimming skill of JOHNNY WEISSMULLER.


All the best


Steve

[Steve Blomer]

update on Bucks Row Project.

Hi all

It is with regret and some embarrassment that I have to inform members that my work will not be completed by the date I previously said.
There is simply too much to work through and write up. In reality we are looking at something very large, a book maybe. I hope to have finished by the end of January and post a summary report at that stage. And this is despite the fact I am doing this full time.

I am truly sorry for the delay in publishing my conclusion. However i may post an additional section I had not planned in the meantime, say part 3A. Not sure yet but it is a possability.


Thanks for your patience.

[Steve Blomer]

The Name of Bucks Row

While the Bucks Row Project is still some way from completion, for which I sincerely apologize, I have a few snippets of Research which I would like to share with the Forum. Here is the first


It is often said that the Bucks Row had originally been called Ducking Pond Row on account of the ducking pond which apparently had stood at the Eastern end, where Brady street is now; such is quoted by many including Mr John Bennett on the Whitechapel Society website and in the dissertations section of Casebook.org. I must say here and now that this brief work by John is truly excellent.
While researching Bucks Row I have studied a great number of maps from the 18th and 19th centuries and something has become very clear to me which leads me to believe that the view that Bucks Row was called Ducking pond Row, is not the whole picture or entirely accurate, let me expand.
The original thoroughfare from Bakers Row was single track and was indeed called Ducking Pond Row, but when this was split into two separate routes, North and South, in the early 19th Century, the position becomes more confusing.
It seems after this that the Southern route was more often referred to as Ducking Pond Row on maps, first being name such on a map in 1827; the Northern route baring no name in that map, The Southern Route was again referred to as such in 1844.
The Northern route is first called Bucks Row in an 1850 map, while the southern route is labeled as Ducking Pond Row on the very same map. This is repeated in a map of 1861.
One map in 1857 and another in 1865 however both give the Northern Route the title of ducking pond Row, while not naming the Southern Route.
However, the Northern route is referred to as Bucks Row in the majority of Maps after 1850.
The lower route is shown as little North Street in 1864, and becomes Winthrop in an 1886 map. Bucks Row and Whites Row are shown as Durward street in the Stanford map of 1897, and in the 1;1,056 1893-1895 OS map which is not included in the table below.

All maps are on the site mapco.net

It therefore Seems that the Name Ducking Pond Row was not the previous name of the Road later called Bucks Row, but a name for a single, wide thoroughfare which ran behind and parallel to the Whitechapel Road. When this was split into two distinct roadways in the early 19th Century, it was the Southern, not the Northern Route which was most commonly referred to as Ducking Pond Row.



Steve

[Gary Barnett]

While the Bucks Row Project is still some way from completion, for which I sincerely apologize, I have a few snippets of Research which I would like to share with the Forum. Here is the first


It is often said that the Bucks Row had originally been called Ducking Pond Row on account of the ducking pond which apparently had stood at the Eastern end, where Brady street is now; such is quoted by many including Mr John Bennett on the Whitechapel Society website and in the dissertations section of Casebook.org. I must say here and now that this brief work by John is truly excellent.
While researching Bucks Row I have studied a great number of maps from the 18th and 19th centuries and something has become very clear to me which leads me to believe that the view that Bucks Row was called Ducking pond Row, is not the whole picture or entirely accurate, let me expand.
The original thoroughfare from Bakers Row was single track and was indeed called Ducking Pond Row, but when this was split into two separate routes, North and South, in the early 19th Century, the position becomes more confusing.
It seems after this that the Southern route was more often referred to as Ducking Pond Row on maps, first being name such on a map in 1827; the Northern route baring no name in that map, The Southern Route was again referred to as such in 1844.
The Northern route is first called Bucks Row in an 1850 map, while the southern route is labeled as Ducking Pond Row on the very same map. This is repeated in a map of 1861.
One map in 1857 and another in 1865 however both give the Northern Route the title of ducking pond Row, while not naming the Southern Route.
However, the Northern route is referred to as Bucks Row in the majority of Maps after 1850.
The lower route is shown as little North Street in 1864, and becomes Winthrop in an 1886 map. Bucks Row and Whites Row are shown as Durward street in the Stanford map of 1897, and in the 1;1,056 1893-1895 OS map which is not included in the table below.

All maps are on the site mapco.net

It therefore Seems that the Name Ducking Pond Row was not the previous name of the Road later called Bucks Row, but a name for a single, wide thoroughfare which ran behind and parallel to the Whitechapel Road. When this was split into two distinct roadways in the early 19th Century, it was the Southern, not the Northern Route which was most commonly referred to as Ducking Pond Row.



Steve

Hi Steve,

Very interesting, thanks for that.

We have discussed the origin of the name on here before. Judging by Roque's map of 1747, the name Ducking Pond Row appears to have been originally applied to the row of buildings on what would later become the southern side of Winthrop Street.



Gary.

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=21305&highlight=Ducking&page=2

[Steve Blomer]

Hi Steve,

We have discussed the origin of the name on here before. Judging by Roque's map of 1747, the name Ducking Pond Row appears to have been originally applied to the row of buildings on what would later become the southern side of Buck's Row.

[ATTACH]18381[/ATTACH]

Gary.

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....Ducking&page=2

Gary

Thanks for that info Gary,
I was not aware of this, and it was just something i stumbled upon yesterday, which i thought was interesting and which i shall had to my finished work, it does not take up anymore space than whats posted here, and gives a fuller picture, which is the aim of the work.

Yes its clear all the maps pre 1827 show a single wide route. i would say the name can be applied just as much to what became, Little North street/Winthrop as to Bucks Row, if not more so.
Its really an academic point i feel as its used for basically the same area, however it is clear that in the mid 1800s the two names were used at the same time Bucks Row being the Northern and Ducking Pond the lower routes.

i am btw working on the HB3 today, i really hope you will enjoy what i do, even igf you don't agree with my findings.

[Gary Barnett]

Gary

Thanks for that info Gary,
I was not aware of this, and it was just something i stumbled upon yesterday, which i thought was interesting and which i shall had to my finished work, it does not take up anymore space than whats posted here, and gives a fuller picture, which is the aim of the work.

Yes its clear all the maps pre 1827 show a single wide route. i would say the name can be applied just as much to what became, Little North street/Winthrop as to Bucks Row, if not more so.
Its really an academic point i feel as its used for basically the same area, however it is clear that in the mid 1800s the two names were used at the same time Bucks Row being the Northern and Ducking Pond the lower routes.

i am btw working on the HB3 today, i really hope you will enjoy what i do, even igf you don't agree with my findings.

More so, I'd say. The area immediately north of the southern side of what became Winthrop Street has the appearance of a narrow open space rather than a road. My view - and I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time - is that the 'Row' was originally the row of buildings, so didn't actually apply to the land that would later become Buck's Row.

I look forward to your take on the HB3. If it's as comprehensive as everything else you have produced to date, it will give me something to get my teeth into.

Gary

[Steve Blomer]

More so, I'd say. The area immediately north of the southern side of what became Winthrop Street has the appearance of a narrow open space rather than a road. My view - and I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time - is that the 'Row' was originally the row of buildings, so didn't actually apply to the land that would later become Buck's Row.

I look forward to your take on the HB3. If it's as comprehensive as everything else you have produced to date, it will give me something to get my teeth into.

Gary

Do my best Gary, its basically a whole chapter. lots of possibilities, and i have a nagging doubt, when did Tompkins die again, in my notes but being lazy

Steve

[Gary Barnett]

Do my best Gary, its basically a whole chapter. lots of possibilities, and i have a nagging doubt, when did Tompkins die again, in my notes but being lazy

Steve

Feb, 1891. I can't remember the exact date off the top of my head, but just a few days before Frances Coles was murdered. By that time his father had also died (in Winthrop Street) but his brother, Thomas, remained in the East End for a year or so before he and the remaining Tomkins family returned to Manchester.

[Steve Blomer]

Feb, 1891. I can't remember the exact date off the top of my head, but just a few days before Frances Coles was murdered. By that time his father had also died (in Winthrop Street) but his brother, Thomas, remained in the East End for a year or so before he and the remaining Tomkins family returned to Manchester.

Gary,

So about the same as Kos? Any idea of the cause of death?

Do i put forward a left field suggestion? Not that i believe it, but i can make a case for I think, no sources to back it, but not impossible. make my mind up later.

Good job I am not doing suspect research.


steve

[Gary Barnett]

Gary,

So about the same as Kos? Any idea of the cause of death?

Do i put forward a left field suggestion? Not that i believe it, but i can make a case for I think, no sources to back it, but not impossible. make my mind up later.

Good job I am not doing suspect research.


steve

Here you are, Steve:


These are the details from his death certificate:

When/where: 10/2/91. 12, Coventry Street

Name: Henry William Tomkins

Sex: Male

Age: 32 years

Occupation: Horse slaughterer

Cause of death: Bronchitis, pneumonia. Certified by A. Atkins

Informant: E. Tomkins, widow of deceased, present at death at 12, Coventry Street, Bethnal Green.

Registered: 11/2/1891

Registrar: Henry Ashford


Re the left field idea - go for it.


Gary

[Steve Blomer]

Here you are, Steve:


These are the details from his death certificate:

When/where: 10/2/91. 12, Coventry Street

Name: Henry William Tomkins

Sex: Male

Age: 32 years

Occupation: Horse slaughterer

Cause of death: Bronchitis, pneumonia. Certified by A. Atkins

Informant: E. Tomkins, widow of deceased, present at death at 12, Coventry Street, Bethnal Green.

Registered: 11/2/1891

Registrar: Henry Ashford

Gary

thanks Gary

think i may float an idea


steve

[Gary Barnett]

thanks Gary

think i may float an idea


steve

I'm all ears...