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Old September 12th, 2012, 04:04 PM   #21
Jennifer Shelden
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I can't say that the 'Tin box' was ever really much of a problem to me. I'd still be more concerned about the possible 'Poste House' faux-pas.

In the context of the diarists 'poem', tin, matchbox and empty in that order, seems to me to be the only way of expressing what the diarist was trying to convey. His 'try out' line, subsequently crossed through, would naturally have to be the same.

'Empty tin matchbox' wouldn't work would it?

Paul
I think i recall the main point being how would he know there was such a matchbox? ??
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Old September 12th, 2012, 04:08 PM   #22
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I think i recall the main point being how would he know there was such a matchbox? ??
Yes and because it sounds like it was lifted straight out of a list of items, "1 tin matchbox empty" etc etc.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 04:27 PM   #23
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Yes and because it sounds like it was lifted straight out of a list of items, "1 tin matchbox empty" etc etc.
Yes Chris. But at the same time it may not have been. That police list has existed from 1888 to this very day, and probably existed in more than one copy originally. The copy found in 1987 was in the Home Office files. It was evidence, so surely existed originally in the Police files too. I don't see how it can help to date the diary.

Jen.

I think the clear inference in the diary is that Maybrick went through Kate's pockets and noted a few of her belongings. Whether he had the light to do so is another matter. He was clearly looking for a match to light the scene, and was frustrated that the matchbox was empty.

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Old September 12th, 2012, 04:27 PM   #24
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I like where he tries to out rhyme his brother, who wrote the music

Yes, I know MM co-wrote some lyrics but that's not generally his bag is it?
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Old September 12th, 2012, 04:32 PM   #25
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I like where he tries to out rhyme his brother, who wrote the music

Yes, I know MM co-wrote some lyrics but that's not generally his bag is it?
Hi Nemo.

We don't know whether Michael was good at the art of verse or not. James certainly thought he was. I don't see why Michael being a songwriter should even enter in to it. Would the same objections be raised if Michael had been a buthcher, baker etc.?

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Old September 12th, 2012, 04:33 PM   #26
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I like where he tries to out rhyme his brother, who wrote the music

Yes, I know MM co-wrote some lyrics but that's not generally his bag is it?
Michael Maybrick was the Andrew Lloyd Webber of his day -- a composer who needed a wordsmith such as Tim Rice to give his music wings. The Diarist seems to think Michael wrote the words to those songs... as you say, mostly not the case.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 04:34 PM   #27
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The Diarist seems to think Michael wrote the words to those songs... as you say, mostly not the case.
Chris. Where does the diarist say this?

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Old September 12th, 2012, 04:38 PM   #28
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I think it's a bit crass for James Maybrick to express a desire to outdo his famous brother and apparently consider that he had a chance of doing so

A bit like having Picasso as a brother and saying that you are going to paint better than him to get one up on him
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Old September 12th, 2012, 04:40 PM   #29
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He doesn't say it but clearly he saw himself as able to better his brother in the art of writing verse.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 06:08 PM   #30
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That's right Chris. He doesn't. To be honest I'm astonished that old canard still has legs! Sir Jim of the diary knows full well that his brother wrote 'merry tunes', and not (usually) the words to accompany them.

Nowhere does he claim that Michael wrote lyrics.

Interestingly though, the diary verses do bear a strong resemblance to song lyrics in more ways than one, and can be fitted to tunes of the day. A subtle touch by our diarist if it was intentional maybe.

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