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Old September 8th, 2009, 07:45 PM   #21
Howard Brown
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Bob:

As you know, I have mentioned to you my feeling that if the Diary is of a modern construct, that we both may have met or read work from the person(s) who put it together. Obviously, it was at a time when we were shooting the breeze off the boards and the conversation was just a "what if..." sort of exchange...with nothing to go on. Thats how wound up people can get about the whole affair.

The line that you mentioned could have easily been remembered by someone at that meeting without Mr. Beadle knowing.....remembered by someone whom Mr. Beadle told the line too after the meeting ........or a case of someone who told someone else what Mr. Beadle said.
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Old September 8th, 2009, 07:52 PM   #22
Stephen Leece
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Or it could simply be a figure of speech.
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Old September 8th, 2009, 10:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by How Brown View Post
Bob:

As you know, I have mentioned to you my feeling that if the Diary is of a modern construct, that we both may have met or read work from the person(s) who put it together. Obviously, it was at a time when we were shooting the breeze off the boards and the conversation was just a "what if..." sort of exchange...with nothing to go on. T
I remember it well. We were theorizing about the Diary having been an "inside job", written by someone in the field either as a practical joke that got out of hand or a deliberate effort to make fellow Ripperologists look like fools.
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Old September 9th, 2009, 12:58 AM   #24
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However, it is interesting to see Jeremy used the precise phrase "If they insist I am a Jew then a Jew I shall be" in a public speech before the Diary came into public view.Thank God he didn't say 'Oh costly intercourse of death'......
Sir Robert, that last line made me laugh.

I didn't know Mr Beadle, and the full article isn't reproduced here so that we can read it, but permit me to say that I am underwhelmed with the excepts that we can see. I have several questions:

>First of all, who has provided the article's author with any evidence that Mr Beadle ever spoke these words?
The author wasn't there. Is this information located elsewhere in his article?

>Did Jeremy Beadle write his speech down (though without noting the date) and someone else preserved it (though without noting the date) and now the author has it in his possession?

The author says that "many years ago" he found "an internet reference" to a speech given by Mr. Beadle at the CUJS. Wow, is that vague...And even this anonymous "internet reference" had no date for the speech. Why not?
Who is this unnamed internet reference? KT??

> Why not just ask Cambridge & the Jewish Society directly?

Next the author tells us that over many years he finally managed to track down one single "eyewitness" to this speech- another completely unnamed source. This man didn't know the date of the speech either, not even the year in which it occurred, but the author claims he was there... So what? Where's the proof? What's the point?

>The author doesn't even tell us if this "lawyer" claims to have heard Mr Beadle actually make the "They Say I am A Jew" statement.

Did this supposed witness have a transcript of the speech?
He couldn't pinpoint the date any closer than a span of several years, so I certainly hope the author isn't relying on his memory!

Obviously, IF Mr. Beadle ever made the statement attributed him "in the early 1990's", it is much more likely to have been after the Diary emerged. And if that was the case, then it was clearly a bit of humor on Mr. Beadle's part rather than some suspicious slip or dastardly clue. But I see no evidence that it ever happened.

Frankly, I do not believe this author. He presents a vague argument that is so full of holes that I don't even get the feeling that he believes what he is saying! Nor I do not care for his manner of trying to pin the whole Diary furor on a recently deceased man who, from everything I've ever heard, was a wonderful person and not some kind of chaos-wielding con artist out to deceive all his friends.

Conclusion: It sounds like BS to me.
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Old September 9th, 2009, 04:14 AM   #25
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How you don't even need to go into that level of detail- the author is thinking it's suspicious that the journal's author (let's call him James for no particular reason) has put 'Jew' and 'doctor' in capitals.
Well, 'Jew' should always be written like that, after all it is a proper noun. So we can ditch any suspicion over that word. As for 'doctors,' it is a word that can be used as a proper noun like, 'Dr. Martin Fido.'
This article is nonsense and should be treated with the ridicule and contempt that it deserves.
Hi Stephen,

Actually, I suspect it was much more usual in Victorian times to use capitals for nouns like doctor (and post house?) than it is today. If I'm right, then Jeremy Beadle would have known that too (being a hundred times better read than me) and would have been obliged to use capitals accordingly if he wanted a hoaxed diary to appear suitably old. So he can't win, can he?

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This all feels rather odd as I am a long time proponent of the Diary-as-old-hoax school of thought.

However, it is interesting to see Jeremy used the precise phrase "If they insist I am a Jew then a Jew I shall be" in a public speech before the Diary came into public view.

Thank God he didn't say 'Oh costly intercourse of death'......
Hi Sir Robert,

Are we sure Warren was quoting Beadle there? It looks to me like sleight of hand, whereby Warren was merely quoting the diary once more at that point to illustrate what Beadle was about when choosing to speak in that forum. It's quite carefully worded to avoid claiming outright that it was a direct quote from Beadle himself, made during his speech. Now why would Warren have been such a niggard of his own speech, I wonder?

I also wonder if Warren put his 'theory' to Beadle himself, or just waited until the man could no longer laugh at such foolishness?

If Warren insists that Beadle was the diarist, then the diarist he most certainly wasn't. Don't forget that Warren, like Harris, had three suspects in mind for their modern hoax conspiracy, and our Jeremy wasn't one of them.

Love,

Caz
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Old September 9th, 2009, 04:23 AM   #26
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I capitalise all nouns, but that's a hangover from German where all nouns are capitalised, so again, I don't see the use of capitals here as a smoking gun. The whole thing is a non-issue, just as the theory being proposed appears to be a non-theory.
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Old September 9th, 2009, 04:32 AM   #27
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Agreed, Stephen.

And it's not like Nick Warren to be funny either, so there's a whiff of desperation here that indicates that the most vocal modern hoax investigators never did have a clue who created the bloody thing and still don't.

Anyone else think this mirrors the whacky ripper theories involving famous personalities who took an interest in the case?

Love,

Caz
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Old September 9th, 2009, 04:43 AM   #28
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I was hinting at that yesterday. Does Warren realise what he's saying? Apart from revealing that they hasn't a clue who wrote the journal by linking Beadle to it, by including some sort of veiled accusation of anti-Semitism, without incontrovertible evidence is a really low blow. This is not the same as if you go through Alice in Wonderland there's anagrams suggesting Dodgson was the Ripper.
I don't particlularly like hippies, but that's not the same as the alleged bigotry here. Anti-Jewishness is indicative of a sick, conspiratorial mind (which Beadle certainly didn't possess); it's a mean spirited, and ultimately lethal form of prejudice.
This is why all publications should be thoroughly proof read, and peer-reviewed prior to publication to prevent unfounded garbage like this getting out and being taken seriously. The serious researchers on these boards should concede that at least, and if they don't I would question their levels of integrity.
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Old September 9th, 2009, 06:12 AM   #29
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It was Michael Barrymore!

edit : no I can't use him he's not dead yet.
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Old September 9th, 2009, 10:03 AM   #30
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Hi Stephen,

If this is some kind of spoof on Warren's part, the man has no idea how to do comedy because it comes across as a badly written, and distinctly unfunny article (correction: it is a badly written article, whether it's meant to be serious or tongue-in-cheek) and, as is so often the case with the more opinionated diary commentators, it says a whole lot more about the way Warren's mind works (in particular the thinking behind his odd little Jewish scenario) than it could ever say about the mind of the diary author - or Jeremy Beadle.

Warren seems to have seriously overestimated his own talents and underestimated the intelligence of his readers, in what appears to me to be a crass attempt to take a posthumous swipe at the character of a truly bright and funny man who had no side to him. I suspect Warren just can't stomach the idea that anyone as smart as that would have taken the diary seriously, so he can only reconcile this in his own small mind by imagining Beadle must have been behind the 'prank' and then coming up with some pretty foul and far-fetched ideas to support this foul and far-fetched theory.

Love,

Caz
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