Martha Tabram

[Howard Brown]

Bobby:

Wasn't it Bird Cage Walk or something like that?

[SirRobertAnderson]

Originally Posted by How Brown

Bobby:

Wasn't it Bird Cage Walk or something like that?

That sounds familiar, How. Or was it Saint James Park ?

I remember that I went and bought Judith Walkowitz's, Prostitution and Victorian Society because it discussed this point. Unfortunately, as you know all too well my library is a disaster area and not accessible at the moment.

Perhaps JSTOR has something on the subject.

But I do recall A.P. pointing out a place where stranger meat was on the menu. It'd be interesting to see if the other Two Brewers (not the one on Brick Lane) was anywhere near such haunts.

[Currerbell]

Thanks Nemo/Robert

Originally Posted by Mr. Poster

hi ho

Pearly and Martha are out drinking and get sloshed, picking up two men. They go into different areas and Pearly ends up getting beat with a stick. Presumably she isnt paid by the wielder unless it was a bit kinky. Miffed....she returns to Martha who, having finished with her man, maybe refuses to share her money or buy drink and ends up knifed by drunken and slightly cheesed off beaten Pearly. Couldnt be simpler. Given that we know that prostitutes carried knives.

p

In that scenario, wouldn't they have made quite a noise? Sloshed people aren't particularly considerate to people sleeping in the neighbourhood. And they sure would have had an argument about the money or drink before the knives were pulled.

Or we have to assume that the Hewitts indeed heard some racket going on but preferred to not get involved, thinking it was business as usual and then later on lied to the police.

What do you say?

[Currerbell]

Im sure one of Pearly's mates may have been told the story if she did attack Martha though...makes sense as to why Pearly disappeared and was never heard from again...

[Howard Brown]

Dear UV:

Thats a legitimate question to all this...that someone who was intoxicated would not be as cognizant of the amount of noise they make as would someone in a sober state of mind. Good thinking lady.

Its also worth considering if one of the two or both of the Hewitts could have heard something in the landing and refrained from getting involved, basically lying about whether they heard anything or not that evening. Other instances throughout history ( The Kitty Genovese murder in NYC ) come to mind regarding apathy and actual eye or earwitnesses.

However, with that in mind, it may also be just as likely, despite the differences in how Tabram was murdered ( no evisceration for example ) from the following murders.... that she was either sleeping at the time her assailant went to work or dispatched with little audible noise emanating from her person while being stabbed because the killer had not been drinking at all. One of the staples of the Guardsmen-with-Poll & Tabram theory is that they had been out drinking...

Its one of those little details...the fact you mention,which has come to my mind before.....regarding the sobriety issue that makes me think less of the Guardsman-as-Tabram-killer theory. Had the alleged Guardsman been the attacker, he may not have been intoxicated,but its difficult to come to terms with an argument that he himself had not been drinking and not made sufficient noise on the landing with whatever amount of alcohol he had in his system.

Nice point UV.

Between you and me, I have little faith in the Poll story of the 4 going out and whooping it up at bars on August 7th. I believe that its likely that Poll HAD engaged in revelry with Tabram and clients before...but I do not ( cannot prove this of course) believe the scenario as offered by Poll on that night in question.

[Celesta]

Originally Posted by How Brown

Hi Cellie !

While you aren't shoveling snow down yonder, may I suggest giving more thought to the 42 day gap between the beginning of Inspector Reid's inquiry into the alleged "double guy event" and the end result: zero evidence of it ever occurring.

The first place Reid had to investigate was the White Hart pub. No one remembered them being there. No one.

That someone was murdered and said to have been in that bar on that night, to me, would have found every barfly in London claiming to have seen at least Tabram there...and Poll probably stood out like a sore thumb.

But no one did...

Sorry, I just saw this for the first time. I'm sure every barfly would've been swearing they saw Tabram. So Poll's inability to identify the soldiers she claimed were there, might suggest that they never were there. Remember she was hazy about the uniform details. PC Barrett's having encountered the guardsman was coincidence. All the speculation about why she didn't identify anyone, including being fearful for her own life, would fall by the wayside. Poll's been suspected before of course.

[String]

Originally Posted by Celesta

Poll's been suspected before of course.

Money motive?

[Howard Brown]

Cellie:

I for one have never seen a theory in a Ripper related book which pointed the finger at Pearly Poll, but there have been suggestions on message boards ( such as by Mr.Poster- Lars sometime ago ) in that direction.

Has anyone else ? String? Anyone?

[Celesta]

There was something, How, I think on CBook, but it was, as you say, speculation. No, I don't recall it being in actual print anywhere either, though I've got a ways to go before that mother lode of literature plays out. Didn't mean to imply it.

String, What do you mean, "money motive?" Do you mean by authors hypothesizing about Poll, or are you referring to money changing hands in 1888, after the murder?