Crime Scene ( 4 of 6) Stride-Solved In Minutes

[Howard Brown]

This "series" of threads is inspired by the recent ( November 2008) issue of Ripperologist Magazine and specifically the article written by one of its editors, Don Souden....entitled, "Solved In Minutes".

Please take a minute or so and describe exactly what could have been collected from that crime site...the yard alongside the IWMEC on Berner Street.

I was searching through these old posts and found these threads. I missed the article unfortunately. Are you wanting examples of what could be collected from a modern point of view or what the police of the time could have collected?
I can certainly help out with what could be done in the modern day

[Currerbell]

Id be interested in both of them Debbie!

Originally Posted by How Brown

This "series" of threads is inspired by the recent ( November 2008) issue of Ripperologist Magazine and specifically the article written by one of its editors, Don Souden....entitled, "Solved In Minutes".

Please take a minute or so and describe exactly what could have been collected from that crime site...the yard alongside the IWMEC on Berner Street.

Not having read this article, I'm just going to put out some guesses from my own experiences, and these are basics that could apply to all of the victims from 1888 standards.... feel free to add to the list or argue against them. First, the scene would have been cleared of onlookers or unnecessary personel, only after documenting all of the onlookers names (as we all know the offenders often revisit the scene and may have been there to watch the commotion he caused) The victims clothes, shoes would have been saved along with the contents of their purses, pockets, etc. Blood and or fluid samples would have been taken. Photographs of the scene taken, and also before the victim was moved. I would have gone trigger happy with the camera. I would also have insisted on a more detailed autopsy report. And this may have been too advanced for the time, but I would have also had the DR take blood samples from an uncontaminated part of the V's body for comparison with the exposed fluids taken earlier. Any trash recepticles, or out of place litter would have been heavily scrutinized.

I will work on the collections of todays standards tomorrow evening as I will actually have a Friday off for once and there's some definite blood spatter points to be brought up.

[Howard Brown]

Debbie:

Thanks for tackling this project.

I wonder...as an aside to all this...if even today,with the advantages of forensics...if police utilize ALL the tools available on a murder of a prostitute...lets say the first murder out of a skein of murders, but that it was considered part of a skein only later on.

If they didn't use all the advantages at the scene in the first murder...then they might miss something by the time the second murder in the skein occurs. This is why I think...cannot prove...but think that often serial killers who prey on prosses can rack up some numbers before they are inevitably caught even with modern advantages.

Back to the thread....and again, Deb...I appreciate you stepping up to the plate here.

How
For Carmine

[Currerbell]

Thanks for that insight Debbie

DNA usually solves every crime nowadays though yeah? People tend to be regular offenders and so may have stepped up from theft to murder (well maybe).

I would have thought whoever was murdered the police always want to catch who did it and prove it beyond a doubt in court and so will always get every scrap of evidence available at the scene, which is the most important part of the crime Im guessing...you are gonna find it there if there is something...

Originally Posted by How Brown

Debbie:

Thanks for tackling this project.

I wonder...as an aside to all this...if even today,with the advantages of forensics...if police utilize ALL the tools available on a murder of a prostitute...lets say the first murder out of a skein of murders, but that it was considered part of a skein only later on.

If they didn't use all the advantages at the scene in the first murder...then they might miss something by the time the second murder in the skein occurs. This is why I think...cannot prove...but think that often serial killers who prey on prosses can rack up some numbers before they are inevitably caught even with modern advantages.

Back to the thread....and again, Deb...I appreciate you stepping up to the plate here.

How
For Carmine

I totally agree with you How. I've seen it happen. Well, not literally, but cases I've been privy to. I'm convinced Jackers had plenty of notches on his bedpost besides the fab 5.

Just to follow up a bit for modern day investigations...
I would want evidence tech highly skilled in bloodstain pattern analysis brought into this. Especially in the Kelly murder. I want to know exactly how much blood this guy was covered in, how hard if any impact blows were done, angles etc. This would also help in determining right or left handed. Unfortunately the outdoor crime scenes were washed away, but if a trail of blood drops could be located it could indicate direction of travel and possible injuries to Jack. There's alot to BPA (((that I won't attempt to go into right now))) that could help in this.

And obviously as Currerbell brought up, DNA everything.

[Currerbell]

Hi Debbie

What do you think they were gaining by taking the photos of Kelly's body in situ?

From a forensic point of view I mean, it obviously wasnt for ID purposes like the other photos of the women....

Originally Posted by Currerbell

Hi Debbie

What do you think they were gaining by taking the photos of Kelly's body in situ?

From a forensic point of view I mean, it obviously wasnt for ID purposes like the other photos of the women....

I really don't know but I'm glad they did. It gives us the opportunity to see the crime scene of the body before it was moved. I think they may also want to show the higher ups exactly what was going on. If I'm not mistaken Kelly's murder was on a different jurisdiction than the previous ones so there may have been procedural differences at play.