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The True Provenance of the Eddowes Shawl?

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  • The True Provenance of the Eddowes Shawl?

    Inspired by Tom Wescott's thought provoking work, The Bank Holiday Murders.....

    Discussion begins....
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  • #2
    Some years ago, while doing Psychic TV, I did some research into the Shawl.

    Beleive it or not even in Psychic TV we wanted some credability..

    I concluded then that it almost certainly was Not Kate Eddow's.

    Its an expensive piece of material for a start, if she had of owned such a thing it would have been straight down the pawn shop for another drink.

    Yours Jeff

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks How

      Thanks How, it really is time that this little side issue was sorted out. I don't think that it is actually a shawl, let alone connected to Eddowes.

      Comment


      • #4
        Its provenance is poor, and starts with PC Amos White in my opinion.

        Monty


        PS, Rob Clack just messaged me. Amos Simpson, not White.....were any of you buggers gonna point it out?

        Comment


        • #5
          Don't...

          Don't call me a bugger...

          Just in case anyone is interested in this topic the 'shawl' first reared its ugly head on the pages of Ripperological scribing in the book Jack the Ripper The Mystery Solved, by Paul Harrison, London, Robert Hale, 1991. It appears in Chapter 6 'Strange Meetings', pages 178-180.

          Harrison received his first information on it via the telephone during the research for his book and eventually located it in Clacton in November 1989, where the owners of a video shop had a framed piece of it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Amazed

            What amazed me was the fact that the 'shawl' eventually sold, after an auction, for several thousand pounds. Apparently the mere fact that it was alleged to be Eddowes' shawl was enough to justify such a ridiculous price. The framed pieces of shawl went for considerably less and are now owned, I believe, by Sue and Andy Parlour.

            Comment


            • #7
              I found this on Line:

              Shawl Was Not Ripper-Proof

              A shawl with a grisly history is going on the auction block. It was worn by Jack the Ripper's fourth victim, Catherine Eddowes, the night of her death.

              The owner is a descendant of Police Sergeant Amos Simpson, who was the first on the crime scene when Catherine was butchered in Mitre Square near Aldgate.
              Forensic testing last year for a TV documentary were unable to prove conclusively that the shawl belonged to her. But it has already been on display at the Police Crime museum, before being put up for sale by the Lacy Scott and Knight Auction centre in Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk. [Link]


              The picture that was with the text wasnt as I remember the Shawl looking like.. in essence, as I remember it was just a length of material with a Daisy pattern. I'm sure Monty mentioned the design was wrong for 1888 (But I apologuise if I'm miss quoting)

              The pieces owned by Andy and Sue Parlour were simply taken from the length of material and in a picture frame..

              In the back of my head I believe the stains were real blood however, I don't know if it was DNA tested against surviving relatives but I some how doubt this.

              I have Andy and Sues book somewhere which is a great read

              Yours Jeff

              Comment


              • #8
                Sorry Stewart ;-)

                Didn't Harrison also have a shady meeting with someone in an East end pub regarding Hutchinson? Its been so. Longg since I've read that book.

                The price it went for was thousands wasn't it? Almost as much as one of Rob Clack kleenex tissues.

                Yes Jeff, something like that. It seems the 'shawl' had a similar pattern of Michalmas daisies to Eddowes dress.

                Wasn't it supposed to be a tablecloth?

                Monty


                PS Are the Parlours still around?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Didn't they DNA test it for the Laura Richards documentary?
                  Jon

                  "It is far more comfortable to point a finger and declare someone a devil, than to call upon your imagination to try to understand their world."


                  http://www.jlrees.co.uk



                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Big Jon View Post
                    Didn't they DNA test it for the Laura Richards documentary?
                    Can't remember if it was DNA tested for the Laura Richards documentary, but it was for the documentary 'Jack the Ripper: Prime Suspect' on the Yesterday channel either last year or the year before.

                    Rob

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Monty View Post
                      The price it went for was thousands wasn't it? Almost as much as one of Rob Clack kleenex tissues.
                      Depends if it was used or not.

                      Originally posted by Monty View Post
                      PS Are the Parlours still around?
                      They are, they were at Whitechapel Society Meeting in April 2012 and they are suppose to be writing or updating there Ripper book for publication this year I believe.

                      The owner of the shawl according to the 'Jack the Ripper: Prime Suspect' documentary is Russell Edwards and in Birkenhead near Liverpool. The documentary is about a year or two old.

                      Rob

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Monty View Post
                        Sorry Stewart ;-)

                        Didn't Harrison also have a shady meeting with someone in an East end pub regarding Hutchinson? Its been so. Longg since I've read that book.

                        The price it went for was thousands wasn't it? Almost as much as one of Rob Clack kleenex tissues.

                        Yes Jeff, something like that. It seems the 'shawl' had a similar pattern of Michalmas daisies to Eddowes dress.

                        Wasn't it supposed to be a tablecloth?

                        Monty
                        Its great to see Ripperologists scratching their heads.

                        But to my re-call the Shawl could not have been printed in 1888 as the pattern was of a later design...but I thought you told me that?

                        I'm not certain that the material had a purpose, just a length of material which would have been well out of Kate's financial reach

                        I think we're heading into dodgy grounds with Robs tissues

                        Yours jeff

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Who...?

                          Who is scratching their head? I'm not, I'm perfectly happy that the 'shawl' has absolutely nothing to do with Eddowes.

                          I merely thought that this might be a good place to draw together all the information that we have on this controversial item and knock it on the head once and for all. The first time I became involved with the 'shawl' was back in 1997 when, at the behest of Nick Warren, I went to Thetford to see a dealer in antiques, 'Malcolm', who had acquired the framed pieces of shawl. 'Malcolm' had bought the item together with a photocopy of Inspector Spratling's bus pass and other items, around June 1996. He had contacted New Scotland Yard in an effort to authenticate his purchase. John Ross of the Crime Museum (which by now had had the shawl donated to them by its owner) had arranged for examination by Christie's auction house and the shawl had been dated to the early 1900s.

                          This was subject of an article in Ripperana no. 20 of April 1997. At Thetford I examined and photographed the framed 'shawl' samples and, at Malcolm's request, gave him an idea of its value. More to follow...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Photographs

                            Here are two of the photographs that I took of the framed 'shawl' samples at Thetford in 1997.

                            Click image for larger version

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                            Click image for larger version

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                            • #15
                              Bill Waddell

                              In his book, The Black Museum New Scotland Yard, Bill Waddell, London, Little, Brown and Company, 1993, Bill Waddell tells us that recently [as of 1993] he had acquired, for the Crime Museum, 'a silk screen printed shawl'.

                              This had been in the donor's family for years and a large section had been cut out, according to family tradition, by his mother who did not like the bloodstains that were on it. Bill was told that 'it was the shawl worn by Catherine Eddowes when she was killed.' Bill ended with, 'Who knows what will come next?'

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