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The True Provenance of the Eddowes Shawl?

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  • #91
    Seems like I picked a bad fortnight to have off...

    I'll listen to surmise by Tom...because I respect the depth of his research and admire his ability to coax the maximum from the known evidence...I'll almost die in admiration of someone like Helena who researches the facts from get-go and comes up with the raw truth...it goes without saying that I'll buy almost anything from folk like the Sheldons, Ariffs, Beggs etc of this world...

    I'm sorry, but in all likelihood I won't even bother to read this guy's book...it's just another Cornwellian mitochondrial DNA non-event with a Max Clifford-like promotion...maybe this makes me small-minded...but on the balance of probabilities?

    All the best

    Dave

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    • #92
      detector

      Hello Dave.

      "I'm sorry, but in all likelihood I won't even bother to read this guy's book...it's just another Cornwellian mitochondrial DNA non-event with a Max Clifford-like promotion...maybe this makes me small-minded. . ."

      No, Dave. This means you are a seasoned researcher with a BS detector set to "high."

      Cheers.
      LC

      Comment


      • #93
        Just throwing it in ....

        Sgt Robinson of G-Div, wearing a woman`s hat and mantle, followed a suspect in Clerkenwell.

        http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....light=robinson

        I wonder if old Amos had just got hold of Sgt Robinson`s gear ?

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        • #94
          I have serious doubts about the provenance of this piece of cloth and Kate Eddowes' ownership of it. Nevertheless, it does resemble shawls of an earlier period.

          Diane Thalmann has a website devoted to French and English antique textiles and she has a Spitalfields silk shawl pictured on her site that is similar, though more beautiful, to the one Edwards bought. It dates from earlier in the century, between about 1815-1830.

          Haven't both Sotheby's and Christie's (who presumably have textile experts) classed the cloth as a shawl, made from Russian silk in the first quarter of the 19th century?

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Curryong View Post
            I have serious doubts about the provenance of this piece of cloth and Kate Eddowes' ownership of it. Nevertheless, it does resemble shawls of an earlier period.

            Diane Thalmann has a website devoted to French and English antique textiles and she has a Spitalfields silk shawl pictured on her site that is similar, though more beautiful, to the one Edwards bought. It dates from earlier in the century, between about 1815-1830.

            Haven't both Sotheby's and Christie's (who presumably have textile experts) classed the cloth as a shawl, made from Russian silk in the first quarter of the 19th century?
            Sotheby's put it at early 20th century. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was earlier than that. Still had nothing to do with Eddowes, though.

            Yours truly,

            Tom Wescott

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            • #96
              point

              Hello Tom.

              "Still had nothing to do with Eddowes, though."

              And THAT'S the whole point.

              Cheers.
              LC

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Lynn Cates View Post
                Hello Tom.

                "Still had nothing to do with Eddowes, though."

                And THAT'S the whole point.

                Cheers.
                LC
                Well we never know these days, Lynn. So often before this shawl business anyone claiming the police strictly adhered to their duties and didn't remove crime scene evidence would be called police apologists or close-minded and unimaginative!

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                • #98
                  inventory

                  Hello Debs. Thanks.

                  If someone claims there were naughty cops, very well. I know some rotten professors.

                  But a cataloguing error? As far as I can see, the MET went strictly according to rule. So, if there had been a shawl, surely it would have been inventoried?

                  Cheers.
                  LC

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                  • #99
                    Lynn, you mean the City Police went strictly according to rule.

                    And I think we can rule out non-police amateurs listing the things - no Strictly Come Cataloguing in those days.

                    Comment


                    • right

                      Hello Robert. Thanks.

                      Of course.

                      But I think that would go for either. After all, they were ALL Brits. (heh-heh)

                      Cheers.
                      LC

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Lynn Cates View Post
                        Hello Debs. Thanks.

                        If someone claims there were naughty cops, very well. I know some rotten professors.

                        But a cataloguing error? As far as I can see, the MET went strictly according to rule. So, if there had been a shawl, surely it would have been inventoried?

                        Cheers.
                        LC
                        I'm sure there are a lot of scenarios that can be thought up to skirt around these issues, Lynn. People can be very inventive.
                        I'm hoping more detailed explanation of the science and results will sort this one out.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Lynn Cates View Post
                          Hello Debs. Thanks.

                          If someone claims there were naughty cops, very well. I know some rotten professors.

                          But a cataloguing error? As far as I can see, the MET went strictly according to rule. So, if there had been a shawl, surely it would have been inventoried?

                          Cheers.
                          LC
                          Hi Lynn et al.

                          Maybe I am mistaken on this but isn't the story that the so-called shawl now in the possession of author Edwards was at one time in Scotland Yard's Black Museum? That's irregardless of whether the shawl came from the Eddowes crime scene. As I understand it, the shawl was in the Yard's famous crime museum, presumably because it was thought that it had some connection to the Ripper crimes. But, at a later date, the shawl was let go by the Metropolitan Police, and it is no longer in the Black Museum, presumably because the police, or the Met officer or officers who ran the museum at the time, were unsure of its provenance. If I have this story totally fowled up, I apologize. Perhaps someone can verify what I am saying or else just inform me that I am speaking nonsense. I am just as happy with either eventuality.

                          Best regards

                          Chris
                          Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                          https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                          Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                          Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Chris G. View Post
                            If I have this story totally fowled up, I apologize.
                            Tell it as you see it, Chris. Don't be chicken.
                            Itsnotrocketsurgery

                            Comment


                            • skirt

                              Hello Debs. Thanks.

                              "I'm sure there are a lot of scenarios that can be thought up to skirt around these issues, Lynn."

                              Well, Edwards certainly SKIRTED the shawl, didn't he? (heh-heh)

                              Cheers.
                              LC

                              Comment


                              • story

                                Hello Chris. Thanks.

                                Perhaps initially someone believed the Simpson family story?

                                Cheers.
                                LC

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