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Quick & Quiet...Yet Fearless

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  • Quick & Quiet...Yet Fearless

    Parallel to the thread that Currerbell has initiated...this thread is for those of us who feel that the Whitechapel Murderer...while being sufficiently "quick" in his dispatching of the victims...and sufficiently "quiet" in the execution of the murders...may not have been too concerned with any interlopers or being seen prior to the murders. This side-thread to Currerbell's does not take into consideration the possibility of a tandem Ripper team...nor did Currerbell's if I am not mistaken.

    There are,obviously,several reasons why the Whitechapel Murderer may not have been too concerned with being seen prior to the execution of the various murders. One of which is that he may not have lived in the immediate vicinity, yet was familiar with the terrain. Whether the man witnessed with Chapman was her killer or not, the fact that Mrs.Long states she did not get a good view of him does not necessarily mean that the man with Chapman turned himself away intentionally from the approaching Mrs.Long or that had he done so,it would be significantly different that the behavior of any man in the midst of a sex transaction on the street. Vice has its discretions.

    Being someone who feels it is likely that Tabram was a victim as well as Stride, we see the risks involved at those locations. A minimum of 30 seconds if not more to commit an indoor ( inside a building) murder as well as a murder committed after being seen by at least two men and next to a building full of people.

    Add the likelihood of Cadosch being just a few feet from an actual murder in progress and the three gents near Mitre Square who may have seen Eddowes' killer prior to that carnage...and for me it spells a fairly confident killer who, by us using a little imagination , probably had sufficient weaponry to take down any interlopers.

    If you are among the minority of people who approach the Ripper in this way,please contribute your thoughts and ideas to the thread.

    Thank you.
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  • #2
    There are,obviously,several reasons why the Whitechapel Murderer may not have been too concerned with being seen prior to the execution of the various murders. One of which is that he may not have lived in the immediate vicinity, yet was familiar with the terrain---HB

    By this I mean,unless you've figured it out, that had he not been from the immediate area(s), his identity would be less identifiable by the locals.
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    • #3
      While the Ripper is "hunting" - then he would be plainly visible I think

      ie he is not creeping through the neighbourhood unseen

      When he chooses to kill the victim close to so many potential witnesses, I think he has been forced by impulse not to miss the opportunity

      There must have been numerous opportunities to kill in circumstances other than on the public highway, so I think the speed of attack and the location were uppermost in the killers mind

      He WANTED to kill and display the body to create maximum terror to the police and public

      It would not be to his plan to kill somewhere isolated and deserted

      This implies to me that he would carefully assess the situation before venturing into attack mode

      Especially in the case of Liz Stride, I would imagine him hanging around observing for a good 10 minutes and possibly longer

      If the BS man walked along the street, saw Liz and attacked her in front of witnesses, pulled her into the yard and cut her throat - then I think he showed a complete disregard for his own safety

      If Pipeman was involved with BS then that could imply that, having a lookout, the BS man would be more confident in the success of his attack

      However, Schwartz was walking behind BS before they got to Liz and there was no link between BS and Pipeman at this point

      If Stride is discounted as a Ripper victim, then I think there is more chance that the Ripper was a lurker in the dark - each murder has the opportunity for the killer to have stalked the victim along relatively quiet and deserted streets, or to blitz attack a victim shortly after she has serviced a client

      Both scenarios still point toward the Ripper spotting a potential victim and manipulating the situation over time to position the victim in the attack location

      There is therefore a high potential for him to have been seen in the vicinity of, but not be connected with, the murders

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      • #4
        I heard somewhere that these kind of murderers like to see what happens after they have committed the crime, its possible he may have been hanging around when the police and Dr's arrived and he could have been amongst the crowds when the victims were going to be buried....they kind of revel in the knowledge it was 'they' who created all this...

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        • #5
          Currerbell;

          One of the killers ( not actually part of a serial killer duo) in the Loeb & Leopold case actually assisted the police in searching for the killer in the Bobby Franks murder the one was responsible for in the first place.

          Jack Unterwegher ( spelling?) was an Austrian serial killer who appeared on television and discussed his past as a killer...he was a darling of the do-gooders...all the while still engaged in serial murder on the Continent.
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          • #6
            There were 2 children, Holly and Jessica murdered by a school care taker in the UK a few years ago, he was called Ian Huntley, he also assisted the police in looking for them, and he was interviewed on tv as knowing them and asking people to come forward with info, when all the time he and his girlfriend had done it....

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Huntley

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            • #7
              Paradoxical Case.

              Adrian Babb

              Between January 1986 and March 1988, seven attacks on elderly women took place in tower blocks in south Birmingham. Women aged in their 70s and 80s, often infirm, were followed into the lifts by a stocky young man who overpowered them and took them to the top floor of the tower block, sometimes carrying them up the last two flights of stairs to the landing near the roof. There he raped them and escaped. Consistent patterns appeared to suggest the work of the same man. The offender had a limited repertoire of locations, victims and actions, which suggested a man operating in a constrained world. Canter noticed that the tower blocks were like islands surrounded by major dual carriageways.

              Victims reported the attacker as black, athletic, without body odours and carrying a sports bag. After the first offence he made no attempt to disguise himself; so he had no fear that he would be recognized locally — the paradox of deep familiarity of tower blocks with the confidence in anonymity.

              Source: Canter, Criminal Shadows (1995).

              ~~~

              It should be noted that the perception of structure of identity may arise in several ways. There may be little in the real object that is remarkable, yet it has gained identity and organization through long familiarity. At the other end of the scale, an object seen for the first time may have strong structure or identity solely because of vivid and striking physical features, which impose their pattern upon the observer. Contrariwise, an object seen for the first time may be identified or related neither through familiarity nor physical vividness, but because it conforms to a stereotype already constructed by the observer.

              Source: Lynch, The Image of The City (1960).

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              • #8
                Pilgrim:

                As always,thought provoking material.

                Are you of the opinion that an inanimate object,rather than the presumed impression some may have of an animate object always being the "trigger" for violent assault, could have triggered this Babb character?

                Its intriguing to think that something ...as in, some "thing"... near the locations of where the Whitechapel murder victims were found could have been a trigger mechanism.
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                • #9
                  Pilgrim - Why do they mention body odours when describing the suspect???

                  That seems a weird thing to say...

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                  • #10
                    Maybe its the recollection of a victim which was deemed worth mentioning,Sar...it does seem unusual.

                    If thats the case, I had better reconsider mugging Debbie D after she comes home from one of her dog shows with Carmine. I was all set to pounce on Ms.Dobbins in a rather brusque fashion. You see,I'm down on dog owners and shant be happy lest they all fall victim to my wicked machinations.
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                    • #11
                      I think in that case the police were concentrating on the sports connection and were wondering whether he came from a gym/jogging etc before the attacks

                      If I remember correctly, it was found that he came from the gym after having showered

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                      • #12
                        Nemo - I see, a clean smell, or shower gel fragrance would ring a bell I guess in peoples memories...esp if the older people had bad eye sight...clues like a smell would help....

                        How - LOL!

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                        • #13
                          Or the rancid,goatlike odors emanatin' from some guy who just played 2 hours of basketball would stand out too.
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                          • #14
                            I have one thing for that last post -

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                            • #15
                              Anticipatory associations.

                              Originally posted by How Brown View Post
                              Pilgrim:

                              As always,thought provoking material.

                              Are you of the opinion that an inanimate object,rather than the presumed impression some may have of an animate object always being the "trigger" for violent assault, could have triggered this Babb character?

                              Its intriguing to think that something ...as in, some "thing"... near the locations of where the Whitechapel murder victims were found could have been a trigger mechanism.
                              Thanks, Howard. I have been wondering about the relation between what might seem a search for "internal objects" and someone seemingly randomly wandering about the area. I think it makes good sense to think of him as in a sense searching for an addictive substance, but not very consciously. I find it quite thinkable, then, that there may have been a fairly strong tendency towards anticipatory association, caused by a sense of lack, of objects, as noted here:

                              "...all the person's energy, including sexual energy, becomes bound up by the relationship to the addictive substance until the person is no longer living in an object-related world". (Keller, 1992, p.224)

                              The 'fixation' view of addiction argues that addiction begins in infancy. The child, experiencing rage over the loss of control of self, and satisfaction at the control of some other object (such as a blanket), becomes fixated on external sources of control (Graham & Glickauf-Hughes, 1992). Put simply, the individual gains control over themselves through the use of an outside object, through the essential incorporation of that object into themselves (Graham & Glickauf-Hughes, 1992). The researchers argue that the failure to later move the source of control from the, for example, security blanket into themselves results in an immense predisposition toward addiction. (http://angelar.com/~jeremy/genesis.html)

                              ~~~

                              It seems to me that the lacking sense of objects AND simultaneous search for these "internal objects" would seem to be a clear sign of a borderline-psychotic state. It seems to me that the preoccupation with the "internal objects" would mean a related, subconscious, sense of anticipation that would be latching onto any space or object/figure by way of association. I see very little reason to doubt that St. Mary's would have been playing a central role, perhaps as intimated here and here.

                              It has been mentioned that serial murderers are, quite invariably, driven by intrusive fantasies. It seems to me that it probably would mean that the murder represents a simultaneous warding off and "acting out" of the cause of those fantasies. Which finally made me think of the London Hospital. It is of course impossible to know, but if there is anything to the notion that the murder scene tends to "echo elements of the fantasy" then a major object such as a hospital could perhaps also have been exerting some influence on a murderer seemingly so much preoccupied with the internal organs of these downtrodden women ?

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