C-5: Killed While Soliciting or Not?

[Gary Barnett Rambler Find all posts View Profile Close Gary Barnett]

As far as I know, there is no evidence that Kelly mistreated Kate. Conway on the other hand almost certainly had. Her drunkenness was cited as the reason their relationship broke down and her injuries while living with him are on record.

Given the dire financial straits she and Kelly were in - he had had to pawn his boots to enable them to eat - it’s likely that he would have been extremely angry to learn that she had managed to obtain money and promptly spent it on drink. Kate’s conversation with Hutt on leaving Bishopsgate Police Station may have expressed a genuine fear of Kelly’s reaction and Hutt’s response supports that:

”I shall get a damn fine hiding when I get home." She tells him.
Hutt replies, " And serve you right, you had no right to get drunk."

A fear of encountering Kelly before she had earned sufficient money to placate him may well have been the reason why she avoided Spitalfields on her release and headed back to Aldgate.

[Robert Linford Researcher Extraordinaire Find all posts View Profile Close Robert Linford]

I suppose there is a chance that the 'hiding' she apparently expected was because Kelly would have feared for her safety with JTR at large.

[Gary Barnett Rambler Find all posts View Profile Close Gary Barnett]

I hope it’s OK to add Alice into the mix here.

She seems to have been in a fairly stable relationship with John McCormack, but such was her desire for drink that she scarpered to the pub with the rent money. What kind of a reception could she have expected when next they met?

(One of the early reports said that Alice appeared to be of the ‘unfortunate class’ because of the way she dressed.)

I think HR may have missed a trick by not considering that Kate may have been forced into prostitution to avoid a beating from her man. And ditto, Alice, if she’d made it onto the list.

One press report used very strange wording about Alice, allegedly from McCormack:

‘McCormack, while admitting that the wretched woman was addicted to drink, denied she was a prostitute in the ordinary acceptation of the term.

[Gary Barnett Rambler Find all posts View Profile Close Gary Barnett]

I suppose there is a chance that the 'hiding' she apparently expected was because Kelly would have feared for her safety with JTR at large.

That’s possible, but her drinking was the underlying problem, the reason Conway allegedly said he’d one day hang for her.

[Robert Linford Researcher Extraordinaire Find all posts View Profile Close Robert Linford]

There are all kinds of reasons why she may have headed back, e.g. she may have thought that she'd dropped the pawn ticket for Kelly's boots, and was trying to find it. Easy to overlook something when rummaging through pockets while drunk. But I guess we'll never know.

[Gary Barnett Rambler Find all posts View Profile Close Gary Barnett]

There are all kinds of reasons why she may have headed back, e.g. she may have thought that she'd dropped the pawn ticket for Kelly's boots, and was trying to find it. Easy to overlook something when rummaging through pockets while drunk. But I guess we'll never know.

Another reason why she may have feared a good hiding.👍🏻

[Anna Morris Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close Anna Morris]

I thought Kate saying she would get a ´damn good hiding´ was just her being cheeky. I have never seen anything to indicate John Kelly was other than kind.

But if the comment was ever thought to be serious, a good follow up question or thought would be why did she want out of gaol? She could have spent the night and made up something to tell her partner the next morning or midday. Or maybe she could have earned a few pennies after being let out.

My general thought about Kate´s actions is that she was chasing after money, whether from her daughter or some other way. John Kelly said he stood barefooted outside the pawn shop. Did he still have his old boots or was he barefoot thereafter? Was Kate intent on getting enough to redeem the boots or get John a new, old pair? If John had no shoes at all I would say that was an emergency.

In the direction Kate was heading, could she have been going toward a mission or similar that might give out old clothes and shoes? I have read about Victorian churches and missions that opened at certain times and paupers lined up to receive what there was, first in line served, others not so much.

[Gary Barnett Rambler Find all posts View Profile Close Gary Barnett]

I thought Kate saying she would get a ´damn good hiding´ was just her being cheeky. I have never seen anything to indicate John Kelly was other than kind.

But if the comment was ever thought to be serious, a good follow up question or thought would be why did she want out of gaol? She could have spent the night and made up something to tell her partner the next morning or midday. Or maybe she could have earned a few pennies after being let out.

My general thought about Kate´s actions is that she was chasing after money, whether from her daughter or some other way. John Kelly said he stood barefooted outside the pawn shop. Did he still have his old boots or was he barefoot thereafter? Was Kate intent on getting enough to redeem the boots or get John a new, old pair? If John had no shoes at all I would say that was an eme
In the direction Kate was heading, could she have been going toward a mission or similar that might give out old clothes and shoes? I have read about Victorian churches and missions that opened at certain times and paupers lined up to receive what there was, first in line served, others not so much.

Kelly had been told that Kate had been locked up for drunkenness. He was expecting her to be released the following morning, though perhaps not as early as she actually was.