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Was it really Mary Kelly?

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  • Was it really Mary Kelly?

    No, it was not.

  • #2
    Let me reply to that declaration in this way....

    If it was not MJK....then Barnett either lied....was mistaken....or was part of some sort of cover-up.

    For if Barnett,upon being asked to identify the body, knew it was not Kelly, he therefore knew where she was and that this murder was planned and he was a link in the chain of cover-up with an erzatz MJK.

    This would mean that Kelly was either aware of this substitute murder and by her decision to not come forward in later years,aided and abetted the conspiracy....or had no choice in the decision in the matter.

    Unless she was whacked later on ....

    Any thoughts on that Stan?
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    • #3

      Yep. A lot of thoughts on that.



      • #4
        Well then, about a little elaboration from the Big Apple's finest ?
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        • #5

          Maybe in years past, but sorry, not anymore.

          Want to discuss beer or chicks?



          • #6

            Sure. Beer and wimmen are pretty high up on any red-blooded guy's list of faves...

            But in this case,I am serious....could you share some observations on my post from 5 days ago? Thanks pal !
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            • #7
              Stan and the Hughes Brothers are right. Mary Kelly survived.

              Two people who knew Kelly said they saw her after the murder. Kelly could easily have told Barnett to lie....
              All this time, I actually thought it was a spectre of Kelly that was seen after the killing....That's the only alternative....


              • #8
                Why be serious Jack, when it's so much easier to be stupid?


                • #9
                  Was it really Mary Kelly?

                  Oh yes it was!


                  • #10
                    G'day Peter, Stan, Jack, everyone.

                    If it wasn't Kelly then who was it? Barrett identified her whether it was by her hair, ears/eyes whatever. He'd been her partner for the past 18 months so I'm pretty sure he'd be able to recognise her despite the injuries.

                    As for the 'witnesses who saw her the following day Jack, there were three and the main one - Maxwell, even said that she didn't know Kelly all that well and Dew stated that he didn't believe her.

                    Have a look at what we know. Hutchinson (if you wanna believe him) says he saw Kelly with a bloke and watched them go into Kelly's room. The next day Bowyer finds a body in Kelly's room which Barnett says is Kelly. Kelly is not seen of or heard from again.

                    If Maxwell reckons she saw Kelly throwing up in the gutter in the morning then that means Jack murdered her in the morning when she wasn't capable of going to the pub for a drink let alone getting a customer. And someone would have seen her 'punting' and Jack only attacked at night.



                    • #11
                      I've always wondered if Mary Kelly faked her death or not . I think it's highly unlikely . The only evidence to this theory is that sighting several hours after the official time of death . I would like to believe she evaded the Ripper , that the monster was denied this victim . But , it ain't so.


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by whitechapel_monster1983
                        The only evidence to this theory is that sighting several hours after the official time of death.
                        I'm sorry WC Monster but it's the other theory that has no support except Hutchison who says he saw her at night with a Jew with "dark eyelashes".
                        Barnett's story is no better, being evasive at best. Nobody knows the truth. Mary Kelly's history is still shrouded in mystery. No family showed up at her funeral eventhough she got letters from her mother up until 1888 according to the landlord, denied of course by Barnett, who is also quoted as saying Mary came from a well-to-do family....


                        • #13
                          Because it's late and I'm in the mood for wild speculation, but I ask you to consider the question of two people:

                          What happened to the young prostitute "Julia" who was staying with Kelly around the time of the murder. No-one identified her, she never came forward or was tracked down by the police, virtually nothing is known about her. She appears in Kelly's life at a key moment, then disappears without a trace and is never heard from again.

                          What about Mary Kelly's "Sister". The one who worked the markets and was Kelly was very fond of? The one who was never identified or found, and who not a single person in Kelly's life ever met, including Kelly's common-law husband for several months. Who was "very fond" of Kelly but was never seen around Miller's Court, never came forward after the murder, and never attended Kelly's funeral.

                          Here's the scenario--A young prostitute disappears, a body appears. Kelly "dies" but her "sister" is still seen around London--except that Kelly is seen up close in the immediate vicinity of Miller's court after she is "murdered" and therefore daren't assume the identity of her "sister" because she knows there is a witness around who might just upset things.

                          Like I said, idle (not to mention wild) speculation, but no less plausible than some of the things I've heard about the case:cool:
                          "The Men who were not the Man who was not Jack the Ripper!"


                          • #14
                            Mary's "Sister" or Julia may have been the companion "rescued" by the Salvation Army. Mary went to what I guess were Sally Ann meetings with a friend according to the Street Minister who knew her and gave a witness testimony.
                            It's funny but I was working with the Salvation Army when I met transvestite hooker and murder victim, Shawn Keegan, and became a whore myself! So you could say I was "rescued" too....Ha ha!....

                            P.S. Dr. Morgan Davies had a private practice in Whitechapel catering to Welsh clients (ref. Casebook Archives)....
                            Needless to say, I've switched camps on this one....And I'm not even a D'Onstonian....
                            Okay whitechapel_monster1983! Uncle! Uncle!.....


                            • #15
                              I've always believed that MJK and "her" murder, are the key to the whole JTR answer.

                              There are too many unanswered questions ! example :

                              1. what happened the the key to 13 Millers Court ?

                              2. Why did Dr Macdonald cut the inquest short ?

                              A wise man once told me, "crack Millers Court you crack the case"