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Q & A - Pat Bennet

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  • Maybe one -- of many no doubt -- starting places in identifying Joe B.'s wife would be to keep our eyes open for Lizzies or Louisas in MJK's circle. There is the suggestion that Joe's wife was a witness, whatever that means. It seems Lizzie Allbrook should have been a witness if she was one of the last people with MJK.
    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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    • Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
      There is the suggestion that Joe's wife was a witness, whatever that means. It seems Lizzie Allbrook should have been a witness if she was one of the last people with MJK.
      Lizzie Albrook's story contradicts that of Maria Harvey as they are "both" claiming to be with Mary the night before until Joe arrived.

      There's a good case to be made that Lizzie Albrook was an journalistic invention that was picked up by Walter Dew, using Maria Harvey's story as a basis, to use as a moral lesson.

      Lizzie Albrook - Witness And Friend Of Mary Kelly. (jack-the-ripper.org)

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      • Originally posted by San Fran View Post
        Lizzie Albrook's story contradicts that of Maria Harvey as they are "both" claiming to be with Mary the night before until Joe arrived.

        There's a good case to be made that Lizzie Albrook was an journalistic invention that was picked up by Walter Dew, using Maria Harvey's story as a basis, to use as a moral lesson.

        Lizzie Albrook - Witness And Friend Of Mary Kelly. (jack-the-ripper.org)
        I already put forth that suggestion, that Lizzie was a press invention to temper sympathy for Mary's ghastly death with morality. Young Lizzie was warned by Mary not to ever take up the "bad life", etc. She was not an official witness and her name and story seem to originate in a Welsh "Daily Mail" article. Another researcher somewhere here had a great explanation of how both Lizzie and Mrs. Harvey could have been present when Joe arrived. I wish I could point to that explanation as it made a lot of sense in clearing up both women's presence and the likely existence of Lizzie.

        The link given could be the equivalent of a post here on the Forum. That is what we know at this time and we have an historical dead end but that does not mean we have to accept any conclusion. I give little credence to Walter Dew. I am sure he remembered catching Crippen but his 'memories' of MJK always sound created IMO.

        Alternately we can keep in mind the necessity in literature of the time, that a woman who had fallen had to be repentant and suffer. This theme explains the trajectory of "La Dame aux Camelias" by Dumas fils. Young courtesan Marie du Plessis could be understood because she suffered, repented and died. Verdi was said to have great sympathy for the plight of fallen women, especially since he was cohabiting with a woman who was shunned for her indiscretions. He recreated Marie as Violetta in "La Traviata".

        In good literary tradition, Mary Jane Kelly needed to suffer and repent before her death could take on the noble aspects of her being a victim. I can imagine moralists of the time cringing over the heartfelt sympathy for a prostitute who was so horribly destroyed in a squalid room in a dangerous slum.

        That said, I think there was a Lizzie Allbrook though she may have been a Louisa Albrecht/Allbright....etc. There are a number of ways to spell a surname that might sound like Allbrook. There are a number of Louisa Albrechts in the BMD but extended family had German names. There are also a few Louisa (sounds like Allbrook) candidates born in the East End at right time.

        In the U.S. we think of Lizzie as short for Elizabeth and never for Louisa. It looks like in 1800's UK, Lizzie was a common nickname for Louisa? Was it as common for Elizabeth? Considering there was the great queen, Elizabeth I, might that name be treated with more deference?
        The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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        • Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post

          I already put forth that suggestion, that Lizzie was a press invention to temper sympathy for Mary's ghastly death with morality. Young Lizzie was warned by Mary not to ever take up the "bad life", etc. She was not an official witness and her name and story seem to originate in a Welsh "Daily Mail" article. Another researcher somewhere here had a great explanation of how both Lizzie and Mrs. Harvey could have been present when Joe arrived. I wish I could point to that explanation as it made a lot of sense in clearing up both women's presence and the likely existence of Lizzie.
          hi Anna, I think you’re thinking of my post, which basically argues that since there’s no contradiction between the two women’s accounts, there’s no reason to think one is false or anything like that. They actually mesh perfectly.

          https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/crit...144#post513144

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          • Originally posted by Kattrup View Post

            hi Anna, I think you’re thinking of my post, which basically argues that since there’s no contradiction between the two women’s accounts, there’s no reason to think one is false or anything like that. They actually mesh perfectly.

            https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/crit...144#post513144
            Thank you, Kattrup. I thought it was your post but I was afraid to try to remember names and sources. I agree with what you wrote and it made a deep impression in my thinking.
            The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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            • Originally posted by San Fran View Post
              I'm sorry, Patricia. I thought Lizzie Albrook was eliminated. Instead, it was a candidate for LIzzie Albrook that was eliminated as being Joe Barnett's wife, Louisa.

              So Lizzie Albrook is still in contention to be JB's wife unless, of course, this is correct and she is this particular Louisa Allbrook that was brought up.The details are in the link.

              Lizzie Allbrook - Jack The Ripper Forums - Ripperology For The 21st Century (jtrforums.com)
              Thank you for the link San Fran!

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              • I would like to wish all the fathers here a very Happy Fathers' Day! xx

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