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Q & A - Pat Bennet

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  • Unfortunately Pat, the vigilance group didn't form until some days after the double murder event.

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    • Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post
      Unfortunately Pat, the vigilance group didn't form until some days after the double murder event.
      I thought it formed a day or two after the Chapman murder.

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      • The Workingmen's Vigilance Group (to which Backert may have been a member) formed after the double event and regularly met at the Three Nuns Hotel. There were other vigilance groups as well.

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        • Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post
          The Workingmen's Vigilance Group (to which Backert may have been a member) formed after the double event and regularly met at the Three Nuns Hotel. There were other vigilance groups as well.
          Hi Scott! Exactly how many vigilance groups were there, and did they all form after the double event?

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          • Is anyone here familiar with the report, that just prior to Catherine Eddowes being murdered, a man approached and ask the night watchman if he had seen a man and woman pass by? Some people are suggesting that either this man had been following Eddowes after she was released from jail, or this man had been following the man that met up with Eddowes, but then lost sight of them. Could this man have been a member of the first vigilance group, or perhaps a plain clothes detective? Could he have been Anderson’s witness who was at the Seaside Police Convalescent home?

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            • Sorry Pat, I just saw this. I'm afraid I don't know how many vigilance groups there were and when exactly they formed. The reference to James Blenkingsop above is problematic at best. He was a night watchman in St. James Place guarding some road work improvement (equipment, trenches?). He may have been working with or associated with the two firemen on duty in the portable station-house in the square. More information about Blenkingsop's encounter with the man probably existed in the City Police files -- no longer existent.

              The information I provided about the Workingmen's Vigilance Group was from the City Press newspaper (October 6, 1888). George Lusk's Whitechapel Vigilance Committee formed on September 10, 1888. There were others as well. I summarized some of this stuff -- The Three Nuns Hotel, St. James Place sightings, Abberline's 1892 Retirement at the hotel, Backert's encounter with the strange man in the hotel -- in an early Ripperologist article, which I can't seem to find now.

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              • Oh... I found it. Ripperologist no. 44 (December 2002). I think it's only available in hardcopy.

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                • Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post
                  Oh... I found it. Ripperologist no. 44 (December 2002). I think it's only available in hardcopy.
                  Aw! Thank you Scott! You are so knowledgeable.

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                  • Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post
                    Oh... I found it. Ripperologist no. 44 (December 2002). I think it's only available in hardcopy.
                    Does it mention the fact that Jack McCarthy and his entertaining son, Steve, attended Abberline’s retirement do? ;-)

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                    • Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post
                      Oh... I found it. Ripperologist no. 44 (December 2002). I think it's only available in hardcopy.
                      Actually the article is available online here - whether with or without permission, I don't know:
                      https://ripperwriters.aforumfree.com...berline-h1.htm

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                      • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post

                        Does it mention the fact that Jack McCarthy and his entertaining son, Steve, attended Abberline’s retirement do? ;-)
                        The newspaper report only listed McCarthy and McCarthy, Jnr, Esq.

                        Hardly the Miller's Court rent collector, who didn't even own the rooms he let out. But you may want to argue with me some more....

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                        • Thanks, Chris for the link.

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                          • Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post

                            The newspaper report only listed McCarthy and McCarthy, Jnr, Esq.

                            Hardly the Miller's Court rent collector, who didn't even own the rooms he let out. But you may want to argue with me some more....
                            You left out the J.

                            His estate was valued at nearly 16k when he died. You don’t have to own the freehold of your business premises to be a man of means. J. McCarthy was a prominent local businessman who would have had dealings with Abberline during the Kelly investigation. His son, JM Jnr, was also well known because of his stage activities.

                            So, they tick all the boxes. If you ever come up with a remotely plausible alternative, perhaps we can continue the ‘argument’.

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                            • Yes, of course Gary.

                              Here is a link to JM's address to a group of businessmen in Dorset Street in 1901, if you haven't already read it. JM is reacting negatively to a newspaper story by an F.A. MacKenzie, titled The Worst Street in London" -- published in the Daily Mail, July 16, 1901. It was Fiona Rule's bread and butter for her book, which, mislead so many readers about the Miller's Court rent collector and the supposed Kendell connection.

                              In his address, McCarthy doesn’t even mention that he was the Miller’s Court rent collector in 1888, nor does he mention the murder of Mary Kelly -- because he wasn't there. And his oration comes across like a elder statesman reflecting his public standing, not as a lowly slum landlord.


                              Casebook: Jack the Ripper - The Worst Street in London

                              (transcribed by Nina Brown) (Hit ctr + enter to the link)

                              Look at the section, "In Any Part of the World." This JM was a different person from the Miller's Court McCarthy. McCarthy was a common name in the area, especially Dorset Street and the Miller's Court landlord was probably related to someone else.

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                              • Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post
                                Yes, of course Gary.

                                Here is a link to JM's address to a group of businessmen in Dorset Street in 1901, if you haven't already read it. JM is reacting negatively to a newspaper story by an F.A. MacKenzie, titled The Worst Street in London" -- published in the Daily Mail, July 16, 1901. It was Fiona Rule's bread and butter for her book, which, mislead so many readers about the Miller's Court rent collector and the supposed Kendell connection.

                                In his address, McCarthy doesn’t even mention that he was the Miller’s Court rent collector in 1888, nor does he mention the murder of Mary Kelly -- because he wasn't there. And his oration comes across like a elder statesman reflecting his public standing, not as a lowly slum landlord.


                                Casebook: Jack the Ripper - The Worst Street in London

                                (transcribed by Nina Brown) (Hit ctr + enter to the link)

                                Look at the section, "In Any Part of the World." This JM was a different person from the Miller's Court McCarthy. McCarthy was a common name in the area, especially Dorset Street and the Miller's Court landlord was probably related to someone else.
                                Where where your two JM’s born?

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