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Q & A - Pat Bennet

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Cogidubnus View Post
    For what it's worth, if any single one of the letters are actually from the killer, then "From Hell" is it...but it's a huge "if"...and I don't really buy it...nor though do I buy the kidney being removed at the mortuary...in my mind, against the background of a killer who seems to have a growing fascination for internal organs, that's a somewhat unjustified step towards conspiracy theorising...

    But again, who really knows?

    Dave
    Think about organs like jewels. They were worth money and mortuary attendants were low paid or less. If Kate was known to have a diamond deep in her abdomen and it disappeared, we could have the same discussion. JtR was a sloppy slasher. It isn't so difficult to access and remove uteri but it takes some controlled skill to remove a kidney...in the dark....in an excited and probably angry and frustrated state of mind. (Think how he had to slash her skirts and pockets to even find her abdomen. And in slashing the clothing around her waist, he did a clumsy, poorly thought job.)

    But as with most aspects of the case, it all has to remain open to speculation until more evidence is found.
    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
      Think about organs like jewels. They were worth money and mortuary attendants were low paid or less. If Kate was known to have a diamond deep in her abdomen and it disappeared, we could have the same discussion. JtR was a sloppy slasher. It isn't so difficult to access and remove uteri but it takes some controlled skill to remove a kidney...in the dark....in an excited and probably angry and frustrated state of mind. (Think how he had to slash her skirts and pockets to even find her abdomen. And in slashing the clothing around her waist, he did a clumsy, poorly thought job.)

      But as with most aspects of the case, it all has to remain open to speculation until more evidence is found.

      Anna, If you think the Ripper didn't have the knowledge and skill to remove Catherine Eddowes' organs, then how do you explain the removal of Mary Jane Kelly's organs, along with her heart, which the Ripper removed via a delicate procedure called the Pericardiectomy. All of Mary's insides were found in the room. No mortuary attendant did this, it was the Ripper. The Ripper demonstrated that he had medical experience.

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      • #33
        How many people think the “From Hell” letter was from the Ripper?
        -Pats-

        My reason for saying 'no' at the moment is that I'm inclined to believe someone might have been playing a trick on George Lusk.
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        • #34
          Originally posted by Patricia Bennet View Post
          how do you explain the removal of Mary Jane Kelly's organs, along with her heart, which the Ripper removed via a delicate procedure called the Pericardiectomy.
          Not all that delicate if you tear off a chunk of lung in the process Besides, hacking through the pericardial sac to wrench out the heart can no more be called a pericardiectomy than a bullet through the head can be called a lobotomy.
          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

          "Suche Nullen"
          (F. Nietzsche)

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Patricia Bennet View Post
            All of Mary's insides were found in the room, including her heart which was found on her floor in a corner.
            I'm sorry, this is incorrect. MJK's heart was never found.


            Personally I believe the dear Boss letter to be genuine but not From Hell.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Patricia Bennet View Post
              Anna, If you think the Ripper didn't have the knowledge and skill to remove Catherine Eddowes' organs, then how do you explain the removal of Mary Jane Kelly's organs, along with her heart, which the Ripper removed via a delicate procedure called the Pericardiectomy. All of Mary's insides were found in the room, including her heart which was found on her floor in a corner. No mortuary attendant did this, it was the Ripper. The Ripper demonstrated that he had medical experience.
              I don't 100% agree with Trevor's theory but I think it makes a lot of sense regarding Kate's kidney.

              As others have replied, Mary's heart was missing and I believe the killer took it with him. Considering what he did to Mary, accessing her heart was not that difficult. Finding and removing uteri would not be that difficult. I have explained and argued for partially blunt dissection before. Sam put it a little more plainly, about ripping out Mary's heart.

              I have spent a shockingly large amount of time considering everything done to Mary, trying to figure out if the killer had any special knowledge. Was he a butcher or knacker, for instance? Concerning the 'pericardectomy', IMO, he cut away intercostal muscles in the same way a butcher would do to retain and use meat from an animal carcass. (My husband and I always got our deer so far from camp that I have a lot of experience 'boning out' carcasses.) I think to argue for pericardectomy, a deliberate incision would need to be identified, along with evidence of spreading the ribs. IMO the killer in this case was simply proceeding with basic butchery.

              (Almost on topic: I recently made the point that in two different dismemberment cases in the U.S., investigators came to two different conclusions. This relates to JtR because so many at the time said he could have been a doctor or a medical student and I do not agree. The two similar U.S. cases happened just a year apart. One was the Black Dahlia in Los Angeles and one was the Susan Degnan child murder case in Chicago. Los Angeles investigators were certain their killer was a doctor. Susan Degnan's body was dismembered in similar fashion but because Chicago was a meat packing town and meat cutters were very angry and violent at the time, and threatening strikes, Chicago investigators were certain their killer must have been a trained butcher or butcher's assistant! They seemed to think a butcher would have even MORE experience for such things than would a doctor and as far as keeping in practice, that makes a lot of sense. This instantly brought to mind JtR who I think had had, at some time, experience butchering carcasses.)
              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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              • #37
                Concerning the 'From Hell' letter, etc. I don't believe any of the letters were from the killer.

                I think MAYBE, the killer on the night of the Double Event had a political motive though I am not sure what it was. The rough pattern looks like Jew (lecture topic at Working Men's Club was something about, Should Jews Be Socialists), Jew (witnesses leaving their club near Mitre Square, Grand Synagogue nearby), Jew (leaving apron in doorway of building largely occupied by Jews, finished off with the crazy writing about Jews will (or will not) be blamed for nothing.

                If any supposed Ripper letters blamed Jews or socialists or immigrants, etc. I MIGHT think the killer wrote them but otherwise I don't think he wrote any of them.

                And there is always the possibility that a different killer perpetrated the Double Event, except for the way Kate was mutilated and the next and last known murder in the series was that of MJK where the mutilation escalated exponentially. Did the sloppy butcher of MJK have political thoughts five weeks earlier? I don't know. Or did he think if he could throw the general blame on 'foreigners' a.k.a. Jews, he, presumably a gentile, would have less chance of being blamed, so to speak?
                The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                • #38
                  [QUOTE=Kattrup;383070]I'm sorry, this is incorrect. MJK's heart was never found.


                  Personally I believe the dear Boss letter to be genuine but not From Hell.[/QUOTE
                  This is an article that another member discovered.



                  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...7035260&type=3

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Patricia Bennet View Post
                    And does everyone think it was a coincidence that part of her apron was found by the graffiti, "The Juwes are not the men that will not be blamed for Nothing?"
                    No, both put there by Eddowes`s killer.

                    And was the word "Nothing" just a coincidence, that Catherine gave the name "Nothing" when she was arrested?
                    Yes, absolutely.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Patricia Bennet View Post
                      How many people think the “From Hell” letter was from the Ripper?
                      Could be, but, IMHO, less likely to have been from the killer than the DB and SJ letters.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Patricia Bennet View Post
                        Do you believe that prior to her arrest on September 29, 1888, she was heard saying that she knew who the Ripper was, and was going to get a huge reward for her information?
                        As we know, a lot of people thought they knew who the Ripper was. I can`t see KE been any different, and my gut feeling is that someone like Edward McKenna would have been her man.
                        McKenna was a local oddball who had also been hop picking but soon returned to Whitechapel where he behaved strangely and was eventually taken in for questioning by the police.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Patricia Bennet View Post
                          This is an article that another member discovered.

                          /Users/patriciadirosario/Desktop/72919623_2465427640368593_2159171903279857664_n.jp g
                          https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...7035260&type=3
                          The link says content not available.
                          Best Wishes,
                          Cris Malone
                          ______________________________________________
                          "Objectivity comes from how the evidence is treated, not the nature of the evidence itself. Historians can be just as objective as any scientist."

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Cris Malone View Post
                            The link says content not available.
                            Yes, i’m not seeing an article?

                            Is it a newspaper clipping?

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Kattrup View Post
                              Yes, i’m not seeing an article?

                              Is it a newspaper clipping?
                              Let me see if that member can post it.

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                              • #45
                                Here' tis.......


                                Belfast News-Letter
                                November 14, 1888
                                ***************
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