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Point To Ponder : Did The Ripper Get Released From Detainment ?

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  • Point To Ponder : Did The Ripper Get Released From Detainment ?

    Two instances of men being picked up on the heels of the Mackenzie murder gave me this thought ( once more...).

    Could the police have arrested or detained the killer only to accept the provided alibi..?

    No need to elaborate over the Yorkshire Ripper and the times he dodged the bullet.

    What do you think ?

    Take the adventures of Messrs. Evison and Sullivan, for instance.....

    Nottingham Evening Post
    July 18, 1889
    ***********




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  • #2
    Hi How,

    It's possible. Many serial killers have been found to have been within reach of the police during the initial investigation of the case, when they finally get cracked many years later. I tend to think that JTR was probably someone who flew under the radar and didn't stand out in any way. Therefore he could have been closer to the police than many might think and yet they didn't consider him a serious suspect because he didn't "act" like the vision of JTR.

    Cheers,
    Adam.

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    • #3
      I know you said not to elaborate about the Yorkshire Ripper but he was interviewed by the police on several occasions and then released. It seems probable that JTR was interviewed by police but unfortunately records of such interviews are scant, if any exist at all.

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      • #4
        Hi How

        This is a whole bunch of speculation that has probably been raised before -but here goes:

        Maybe on the night of the Double Event something occurred - some element that we are not aware of or don't realize the significance of - which brought Jack into the range of the police radar. Maybe he was even questioned at this time, or he at least thought that he might be. The comparatively large gap between the Double Event and Kelly's murder could be then explained as a period of paranoia on the killer's part - was an eye being kept on him? The weeks go by before he is confident enough to strike again - and only then within the confines of four walls.

        Like I said - pure speculation. But if he did have the police knocking on his door at some point or even detaining him, good alibi or not, I'm sure that this would have given him pause for thought.

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        • #5
          2 blokes

          Hello Paul. Could be. Didn't Halse say he stopped two blokes, but they gave a good account of themselves?

          Cheers.
          LC

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          • #6
            The story told by PC Spicer was supposed to have occurred on the night of the double event.
            Regards, Jon S.
            "
            The theory that the murderer is a lunatic is dispelled by the opinion given to the police by an expert in the treatment of lunacy patients......."If he's insane
            " observed the medical authority, "he's a good deal sharper than those who are not".
            Reynolds Newspaper, 4 Nov. 1888.

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            • #7
              Was Spicerís Arrestee Ever Named?

              Originally posted by Wicker Man View Post
              The story told by PC Spicer was supposed to have occurred on the night of the double event.
              An interesting angle - has it ever been explored?

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              • #8
                I have to ask........ How important were alibis in those days?

                If one wasnt seen at the scene and in the abscence of blood on their person (not that any blood found on them could at the time be proved to be human) or any personal connection to the victim or left some identifiable item at the scene...........then a conviction could never happen.

                So if a person wasnt seen nor any blood on them or didnt demonstrably know the victim.......then the person could just say they were walking the street somewhere else at the time of the killing.

                Its not a good alibi but its not like the police could produce anything to say that they were at the scene?

                So did it really matter if they had an alibi or not ?

                P

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                • #9
                  An interesting angle - has it ever been explored?
                  -Patrick K-

                  PC Spicer claimed he got into trouble for arresting a respectable doctor ( a Brixton doctor ) who had been in the company of a prostitute who went by the name of Rosy on Brick Lane. Spicer was booted from the Met in April 1889 for being unfit for the force having begun his career at the age of 21 in 1887.

                  In 1931, his recollection of the night was published in the Daily Express.

                  In the article, he claimed to have seen this doctor on occasion at Liverpool Station trying to make time with the gals. Spicer stated that he'd say 'Hello Jack !' to the doctor ( or perhaps, medical student, if his family oral tradition was accurate)...and the doctor would high tail it out of there.

                  Spicer's granddaughter said that he'd receive Christmas cards from Rosy afterwards thanking him for saving her that night.
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                  • #10
                    If the killer lived locally, which I suspect he did, then there is a good chance that the police spoke to him during their searches.

                    In 1972 there was a claim to have identified Spicer's suspect and he was later named as Dr. Frederick Richard Chapman (1851-88). He died on 12 December 1888 but Spicer claimed the suspect was still accosting women several months after the arrest.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Paul Colwell View Post
                      Hi How

                      This is a whole bunch of speculation that has probably been raised before -but here goes:

                      Maybe on the night of the Double Event something occurred - some element that we are not aware of or don't realize the significance of - which brought Jack into the range of the police radar. Maybe he was even questioned at this time, or he at least thought that he might be. The comparatively large gap between the Double Event and Kelly's murder could be then explained as a period of paranoia on the killer's part - was an eye being kept on him? The weeks go by before he is confident enough to strike again - and only then within the confines of four walls.

                      Like I said - pure speculation. But if he did have the police knocking on his door at some point or even detaining him, good alibi or not, I'm sure that this would have given him pause for thought.
                      I agree with this. Either after the Double Event or MJK's murder, I believe police had some serious ideas about suspects. Then there are all the odd and stray bits of information surrounding the Double Event. A PC near Mitre Square was the only man to ever get a good look at the killer? Or was it a Jewish witness who would not testify? What's all that about the Seaside Home ID?

                      There is a VERY long, two column article in a Welsh paper* from about October 9, 1888. I suppose it has been shared before somewhere here. One paragraph said police had canvassed certain neighborhoods which included Limehouse. I found the article because I was searching for information about Limehouse. I did not know previously that the police had searched that far away. I had believed their intense, door-to-door searching was limited to the exact streets where murders had happened.

                      So in keeping with the question of this thread, I think it is highly probably that the killer, or possibly some of his family members, were questioned at some point.

                      As Mr. P. said below, alibis proved little if anything. IMO most of them were laughable and police had no way of learning any more to prove or disprove.

                      * I clipped another small segment that I am debating about posting somewhere. The Lord Mayor was interviewed--I think he was abroad--and he made some strong statements about the killer which really impressed me as inducement to commit the worst and perhaps the last murder on Lord Mayor's Day. This has probably already been posted somewhere around here. I suppose all it would really prove is that JtR was capable of rreading.
                      The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paul Williams View Post
                        If the killer lived locally, which I suspect he did, then there is a good chance that the police spoke to him during their searches.

                        In 1972 there was a claim to have identified Spicer's suspect and he was later named as Dr. Frederick Richard Chapman (1851-88). He died on 12 December 1888 but Spicer claimed the suspect was still accosting women several months after the arrest.
                        Interesting. This is the same bloke that Mike Covell had living in Hull, isn't it? Was there any documentation linking him to Brixton?

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                        • #13
                          In the spring of 1888 a Frederick Richard Chapman, Bachelor of Medicine, stood for election as a Guardian in Brixton Ward. His address at the time was 4 Barrington Road.


                          (South London Press March 31st 1888)

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                          • #14
                            He seems to be the Yorkshire man. His wife Emily didn't get administration of his estate until 1892 and his name seems to have remained on the medical register for years after his death.

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                            • #15
                              What did Chapman Die From?

                              Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                              In the spring of 1888 a Frederick Richard Chapman, Bachelor of Medicine, stood for election as a Guardian in Brixton Ward. His address at the time was 4 Barrington Road.


                              (South London Press March 31st 1888)

                              Is that confirmed as Spicerís doctor?

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