No announcement yet.

Point To Ponder : Was Emma Smith Killed Indoors ?

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Cris, or :

    "I see you or one of your friends has left some dust lying around."


    • #62
      Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
      I don't think I suggested anything was sinister in Bowyer advising McCarthy before going to the police? I merely used it as an example that as a matter of course, the landlords were to be notified before the police, to illustrate that in Smith's case, Daniel Smith would have been called in to take control prior to Smith going to the hospital. For a large portion of the East End populace, the landlords and not the police were law. Since this case takes place in the East End and all the populace potentially played a part, this must have had a dramatic impact on the investigation in one way or the other.

      Yours truly,

      Tom Wescott

      Of course a manager or owner would be consulted before the police were called. Other than in cases of extreme emergency the same thing would happen in most organisations today.

      The 'Lords' were not the law in the East End or even in the small area of Spitalfields. In their own establishments, and outside their (numerous) front doors perhaps, to a degree, but the evidence doesn't support anything much more far reaching.

      One of the main sources you use in your book to support this idea is Arthur Harding. But as far as I can see, when it comes to McCarthy, Satchell, Crossingham and Lewis, the worst interpretation you can put on what he says would give an 'unproven' verdict . And if his anecdotes are looked at in their proper context they produce a resounding 'not guilty'.



      • #63
        Harding on the 'Lords'.

        Just to clarify what I'm waffling on about here:

        Let's look at 'unproven' first.

        I'm not all convinced that Harding, a man born in the Old Nichol in 1886, personally knew any of the major Spitalfields players of 1888. He mentions McCarthy briefly, but has nothing to say about Crossingham, Satchell, Cooney or Lewis.

        One person he does appear to have known is Jimmy Smith. Harding was best mates with Smith's stepson, Benny Hall. He speaks at length about Smith's involvement in illegal gambling and police bribery. But this Jimmy Smith was probably the son of the one who was prominent in the 1880's.

        His silence on the subject of these prominent figures suggests to me that, apart from a bit of vague gossip about McCarthy, he knew little or nothing about the 1888 'Lords'.

        Incidentally, one of the amusing anecdotes Harding relates about this Jimmy Smith is how he was afraid to evict Biddy the Chivver from one of his lodging houses. (He obviously lacked the killer instinct of the previous generation).

        However, if we accept Tom's assertion that Harding personally knew these guys, then surely they must have been model citizens.

        It's obvious that Harding's main aim in putting this stuff on record is to tell the world what a key player he was in the East End underworld of the time: he knew everyone and he was the hardest man on the manor.

        He has no qualms about spilling the beans on his best friends' father, so why does he have nothing of any significance to say about the other 'Lords'? If he'd had anything on them, you can be sure it would have made the book.

        On Harding's evidence, therefore, assuming he knew them personally, it's a resounding 'not guilty' as far as I'm concerned.


        • #64
          I agree with your scenario, Howard.

          As a woman I would also add that the kind of injury Emma had would have been excruciatingly painful. I have considered that she was so severely injured and in so much pain that she could not access help earlier, but it makes more sense that she was injured inside the lodging house. It's a wonder she could walk to the hospital, even with help. That part always bothered me too. I wonder if she was somewhat forcibly escorted to the hospital?
          The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript