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  • Mary Jane's Picture, Police Gazette

    Has anyone ever considered this unflattering picture of Mary Jane on the cover of the 'Police News', Nov. 17, 1888, could represent MJK in the mortuary after her face was sewn back together?

    That could explain the fairly shapeless jaw line and the dead looking, sunken eyes. Look at what passes for clothing in the sketch. It resembles more a shroud pulled up around the neck, than a pellerine or shawl or whatever.

    If I am right, the hair style is likely fairly correct. I figured Mary had slightly curly hair. Possibly the ear is accurate as well.

    Both of the nice drawings depicting Mary show classically pretty faces with noticeable bone structure. She was reported to be stout. Perhaps her face was fuller than these drawings suggest, or that recent computer reconstructions suggest.

    My thought processes are a bit egocentric. Thinking about how my face might be depicted by the 'Police News', if it was sewn back together, I think I would be depicted like the unflattering, manly picture of Liz Stride because I am thin with strong bones. Whatever inspired the Gazette artist caused him to draw Mary's face with large, soft cheeks of indeterminate shape.

    When I blew up the Gazette drawing 175%, the eyes look dead and unfocused. There is more detail there than I had supposed. Actually this drawing looks exactly like someone I knew many years ago in life, who was obese, mean and mentally challenged. So I have thought a lot about this picture, especially the close set, little eyes. I'm pretty sure the eyes in the picture are depicted as dead, rather than the artist's idea of how they would have looked in life.
    Last edited by Anna Morris; February 7, 2015, 09:57 PM. Reason: correction: Police News, not Gazette
    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

  • #2
    Anna:
    Do you have a copy of the depiction ?
    If we have one here, I don't recall...
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    • #3
      How: I just came back to correct my mistake. "Illustrated Police News", not Gazette. (I have been working on a migraine for days. That affects my accuracy.)

      That said, it's a well known image. I can't find it in our search function at the moment. I'll look up a link.===>>>Which I provided from this site. 'Illustrated Police News", 11/17/1888, post 49 on the other thread.

      Also considering if this sketch is done from the mortuary, considering the damage Jack did, muscular attachments such as at the jaw and cheek probably would have been destroyed, so no matter how it was all sewed back together I would think her cheeks would be slack and ill defined.

      If this was her correct hair style with the fringe over the forehead (we call 'em bangs in the US), it can help us look for her image in the old pictures. One of the supposed actual pictures of Mary on the internet has this style. (Probably isn't her, but someone says it is.) It looks like it might have been a French style. In the old Whitechapel pictures of women most of them seemed to have pulled their hair straight back.
      Last edited by Anna Morris; February 7, 2015, 10:48 PM. Reason: addition
      The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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      • #4
        Its here in the 49th post....

        http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....576#post260576
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        • #5
          Hi Anna

          I think that if the doctors managed to get MJK looking like this, then they were 200 years ahead of their time when it comes to plastic surgery. They could even make me look pretty.

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          • #6
            A reporter who went to the morgue with the jury said he had seen worse in the Paris morgues and that Mary looked better than he expected. Also 'Police News' I think in all the other cases, showed the victims dead in the morgue and how they should have looked in life. There is no death sketch of Mary but there is this picture which is a very odd picture.

            I think the same artist depicted Mary in a smaller picture with the same hairstyle but a pretty face. If that was her hair style and if it wasn't a popular style in Whitechapel of the day, that could also add a new dimension to Mrs. Maxwell's testimony. (I think she was covering for someone, but that's just my opinion.)

            From the terrible Millers Court picture I would guess Mary didn't have the fringe style but there is no way to say for sure. So could the artist's depiction have added that detail for some reason? I think Mary's hair was slightly curly, similar to this sketch depicts. Barnett said he identified her by her eyes and ear. Many think Jack cut her ears and that Barnett said hair instead of ear, but this picture rather features a nicely shaped ear. Barnett has always been quoted, as I remember, saying "ear", singular, and that always seemed odd, but maybe Jack did something with the other one.

            This artist's work looks to me like he guessed at the facial lines and this is the best he could do. It's truly a point to ponder.
            The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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            • #7
              I think that if the doctors managed to get MJK looking like this, then they were 200 years ahead of their time when it comes to plastic surgery. They could even make me look pretty.
              -Bob Linford-

              They're doctors, not genies in bottles.
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              • #8
                A reporter who went to the morgue with the jury said he had seen worse in the Paris morgues and that Mary looked better than he expected.
                -Anna Morris-

                I seem to remember that being mentioned. If you can locate or remember who said it and where, I'll go fetch it, Anna.
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                • #9
                  How, I once had a genie who offered me three wishes to make me look pretty. I asked him if he did quantitative easing.

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                  • #10
                    Anna:

                    Speaking of odd pictures....compare Stride's mortuary photo with the IPN 'recreation' of her face. They don't look very much alike.
                    What I'm getting at is its possible they just 'guessed' at what Kelly looked like without asking anyone who knew her if what they were etching was remotely close to what she looked like. I'd bet the Jeep that the depiction of her going in her apartment with the skull faced Ripper isn't what she looked like alive either.
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                    • #11
                      I can find the quote about her looking better than expected in the morgue. I read every newspaper article I could find and took notes. I'll find it afterwhile.

                      That picture of Stride is a travesty. I would venture to say it isn't her and somebody guessed.

                      I have stronger feelings about Mary's picture. A lot of my theories, some I have developed over years, are easily shot down by more seasoned researchers and I can easily see I am probably wrong. This time I think I am not wrong.

                      What's the chance the doctors or whoever stuffed her cheeks with cotton wool to give shape to her face? (That is a taxidermy technique. I am not saying they practiced taxidermy, but...)

                      It is possible too that she had short, wispy hairs along her hairline and someone thought it was a deliberate fringe. That would more correlate with the etching of her standing at her door.

                      It would depend too, on exactly what Jack did. From memory the doctors said among other things, it was hard to tell where one cut (on her face) ended and the next began. More detailed description implies her face was destroyed. Cornwell uses the term "defleshed". The picture leads me to believe her cheeks were detached and peeled downward. The IPN picture shows a nice chin, uncertain cheeks and a covered forehead.

                      I would guess also that Jack started what he did on Mary's right side. Looks to me like his knife got dull or damaged by the time he got to her left side. Perhaps if he had a sharper knife he would still have been enjoying himself when Bowyer peeked through the window. My point is I have a feeling Mary was rolled onto her left side fairly soon and the IPN picture shows an intact left ear, possibly Barnett's singular "ear". As I recall it was reporters or perhaps only modern writers who surmised he meant hair instead of ear.

                      I googled images of Mary yesterday because it was the quickest way to get the widest selection quickly. I was very shocked with what artists have done with the Millers Court picture. I don't mean reconstructive work such as Jane Coram did. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised to see a stylized version of that scene on a sweatshirt somewhere. I earned my living as an artist but I wouldn't want to do something like that for fear it would tweak a sick mind or two. Plus it is disrespectful of the victim.

                      I also went through a bunch of Sickert's paintings because Cornwell and others suggest he may have painted Jack's dead victims, as in that he was let into the morgue. I didn't think any that I saw resembled my new theory about Mary. Almost all of his have upswept hair. 'Nude at Morning Crescent' seemed the most like Mary, in my mind.
                      The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                      • #12
                        How: The comment is found in 'Pall Mall Gazette', 12 November, 1888 "By our special reporter".

                        Toward the end of paragraph 2 Mary's face is described as similar to what one would see in a surgical shop. "And yet it was no means a horrible sight. I have seen bodies in the Paris morgue that looked far more repulsive."

                        That said, Robert, sounds like there is hope for you.

                        I enjoy the 'Pall Mall Gazette'.
                        The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                        • #13
                          Anna;
                          Don't know what to make of what 'Special Reporter' claims... not about having seen ' far more repulsive sights'...but that it was 'by no means a horrible sight'.

                          I can't imagine why he would express his impression of the Kelly remains in this way....at first I thought it might be a provincialistically motivated remark....( 'Our English murder was bad, but those French ones are worse' ).

                          Whatever the reason, its a strange one.
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                          • #14
                            How: It could be as you say but I still have an idea the doctors put her face back together to a certain extent. The Millers Court picture does look to me like her cheeks have been detached. Perhaps they could be pulled back up into nearly proper place. Maybe the fringed hair was another way to cover something else. The IPN artist seemed to think her hair was fringed in life. I never worked in a mortuary so I have no idea what a cut up, reconstructed face would look like.

                            As for the Special Reporter~~and this is something for dear Robert to consider~~Mary Kelly's face, put back together in the morgue, HAD to be much nicer that Druitt's face by the time he got to the morgue. Unless the Thames is a lot colder than I think it is.

                            Today cosmetics would be used at some point. I have a feeling not in Mary's day. I assume cosmetics would never be used prior to a legal viewing as it would be unscientific and non-factual. Today super glue would probably be used. Seriously.

                            There's something really nasty about the IPN sketch of MJK. If the same artist drew her as he thought she looked in life, pretty, with a little hat, the larger picture almost has to be a recreation from the mortuary, I think. The line of the cheeks and jaw is just a guess in the sketch. Even the bad one of Liz Stride isn't like that. Looks like the artist had no idea what lines to use and he was unsure, maybe using his imagination or maybe he saw something he didn't know how to record.
                            The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                            • #15
                              Hi Anna

                              I am afraid you have me at a big disadvantage, because you are an artist but I am not, and you are a woman but I am not. Women's hair is not my forte. Take fringes : I looked at this site but I am now more confused than before :


                              http://www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/bea...allery/1219796

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