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  • Cachous and Tobacco Smokers

    In some sources, such as www.finedictionary.com/cachou.html , which seems to be a collection of dictionary entries, specifically define cachous as a breath freshening candy used by tobacco smokers. Further investigation, looking at old packaging, shows that at least some containers emphasized this use.

    We know Liz Stride had a "packet" of cachous in her hand when her body was found. Schwartz said there was a man across the street lighting a pipe and that Broad Shoulder Man may have called out "Lipski" to Pipe Man, after Liz was "thrown" down. So far as I know nobody ever figured out how Liz got the cachous.

    I see a very tiny point to ponder here. Could Pipe Man have dropped his cachous? Did Liz pick them up? Was BS-Man trying to get them from her, for his friend across the street? Could he have said "Give ME" instead of Lipski? Or could he have said something similar in Yiddish, Russian, Polish, etc.?

    Would a "packet" of cachous have been worth a struggle? Some of the tins and packages were real nice, but all I ever remember was that there was a paper packet.

    Like I say, I don't think it's much to ponder but there might be something here if cachous were very much a smoker's product.
    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

  • #2
    That's a novel idea, Anna...never thought of it, myself.

    Nice link...thanks !
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    • #3
      I went a step further and looked up "give me"~for a basic idea~in several languages. For once Google translate worked.

      Gebn mir.~Yiddish

      Daj mi.~Polish. This is a possibility. It is similar to the Russian. Think it would sound like Die me.

      Day mne.~Russian

      Add nelem.~Hungarian. Not very likely plus Schwartz might have identified it as such.

      Now for others with a better feel for how things might have been, would Liz have picked up a packet of cachous & said, "finders keepers", perhaps not realising she was in danger? Might she have teased, say BS-Man? Could that be why she said "No three times, but not very loud"?

      I know some don't think Liz was Jack's victim. (Personally I cannot mentally separate her murder from Eddowes & I think Jack got Kate.) It's possible Liz had a minor altercation with a murderous man whose attitude was that no b*tch would keep his cachous and get away with it. After he cut her throat he had to run away in a hurry. Murders have been done for less.
      The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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      • #4
        I just don't think either BS man or PM were Liz Stride's killer. Liz was out and about that evening and was seen with clients, including the man seen by the observant PC Smith.

        I don't know whether Liz brushed her teeth religiously twice a day using brush and tooth powder. I don't know whether she was an occasional smoker when she could get hold of tobacco/cigarette papers.

        However, if she felt that her breath wasn't the greatest she might have persuaded one of her clients (perhaps Jack but probably not,) to buy her a few cachous in a twist of tissue earlier in the evening, as well as the red flower. That may only have been a sixpence or so.

        I just have a feeling that she had the tissue in her hand as she led Jack down the extremely dark passage next to the club. She may have been just about to pop one into her mouth when Jack pulled her back by her scarf prior to cutting her throat.

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        • #5
          Hi, Curryong. I was hoping you would show up on this thread. I was curious about the value of cachous and a lot of other things. Like I say it's a tiny point to ponder but there might be something to it. (At the moment it makes a lot more sense to me than the latest insistence "the shawl" has a Michaelmas daisy pattern, etc.)

          I have always believed Liz perceived herself to have a speech or mouth problem and had always assumed she had the cachous to ease some discomfort or speech issue. The post mortem seemed not to find a deformity in her mouth and it's suggested she claimed the boot to the mouth on the 'Princess Alice' to obtain aid money. Yet she had a nickname of Mother Gum because of the way her gums looked when she laughed.

          Though if some cachous in a tissue paper might have been worth 6d , a bed for the night in a doss house was about 4d .

          I sure wish we know where Liz got the flower & the cachous. She could have picked up the flower on the ground, lost or discarded by someone else.
          The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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          • #6
            Imps

            Hello Anna. Thanks for staring this thread.

            Cachous are like Imps (right pond) or Sen-sens (left pond).

            "We know Liz Stride had a "packet" of cachous in her hand. . .'

            Yes, held between her thumb and forefinger.

            ". . . when her body was found. Schwartz said there was a man across the street lighting a pipe and that Broad Shoulder Man may have called out "Lipski" to Pipe Man. . ."

            Or Schwartz. Israel could not say for certain.

            ". . . after Liz was "thrown" down."

            So, as the doctor said, she did not have them in hand at this point, else they would have been altogether dislodged.

            "So far as I know nobody ever figured out how Liz got the cachous.'

            Perhaps she bought them and her flower? She had 6d.

            "I see a very tiny point to ponder here. Could Pipe Man have dropped his cachous?"

            Not impossible. But IF he had, they would have been all over the pavement at Berner.

            "Did Liz pick them up?"

            If so, it would be one at a time--and VERY dirty.

            "Was BS-Man trying to get them from her, for his friend across the street?"

            If he were a friend, surely their meeting was chance? After all, in Israel's "tale," BSM had come from north of Commercial.

            "Could he have said "Give ME" instead of Lipski? Or could he have said something similar in Yiddish, Russian, Polish, etc.?"

            Would this have not been followed by some noun?

            "Would a "packet" of cachous have been worth a struggle?"

            Not if they were spilled first.

            "Some of the tins and packages were real nice, but all I ever remember was that there was a paper packet."

            Yes, tissue paper.

            Cheers.
            LC

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            • #7
              out

              Hello Curryong.

              "I just have a feeling that she had the tissue in her hand as she led Jack down the extremely dark passage next to the club. She may have been just about to pop one into her mouth when Jack pulled her back by her scarf prior to cutting her throat."

              Very well, but don't forget that Liz was EXITING the yard when she was killed.

              Cheers.
              LC

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              • #8
                Hi Lynn and everybody...

                Like I said, it's a very TINY point to ponder.

                But when they find cachou stains on that shawl, remember we discussed it here first!
                The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                • #9
                  Where is that shawl, now!!

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