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A Way to Ponder the Diary

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  • A Way to Ponder the Diary

    After reading Howie and Nina's annotated version of the Maybrick diary, my first impression is that the person who wrote it was writing ABOUT his subject, about James Maybrick's life as the writer imagined it to be or perhaps partly knew it.

    My research interests tend to be more on emotional aspects of stories. Personally, I want to split apart the subject matter and look at each category to seek believability, errors or amazing possible truths.

    Categories that I plan to look at will be:

    -Drugs/medication usage and effects of such

    -Normal family relations, concern for children, etc.

    -Brothers, comments specifically naming brothers

    -Abnormal family relations, whoring mother, etc

    -Fantasies about crimes, what killer plans or wants to do

    -Descriptions of actual crimes

    Another category could be geography as described by the writer but I am so inadequate with geography I should leave it alone. I did get the idea the writer discussed Manchester as having very bad weather, rather than Liverpool. Something about this was discussed somewhere else.
    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

  • #2
    Hi Anna,

    I'll be very interested to read the results of your research, especially from the angle that you're proposing.

    About the weather in Manchester and Liverpool. I'm no expert on weather but I do live here. The north of England has a reputation for getting more rain than the south but I don't know how that's backed up by facts and figures. Manchester and Liverpool are fairly close together so it's unlikely that there's much weather difference there.
    Regards

    Michael🔎


    " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Michael Banks View Post
      Hi Anna,

      I'll be very interested to read the results of your research, especially from the angle that you're proposing.

      About the weather in Manchester and Liverpool. I'm no expert on weather but I do live here. The north of England has a reputation for getting more rain than the south but I don't know how that's backed up by facts and figures. Manchester and Liverpool are fairly close together so it's unlikely that there's much weather difference there.
      Hi. Michael. I think I'll leave the geography alone but thanks for the information. In Victorian times, wasn't Manchester heavily clouded with coal smoke? Maybe I am thinking of something from Dickens and I may not be correct in thinking Manchester.

      What got me thinking along the line I chose was reading what the diary writer said about drugs and medications. I wondered if all the information was collected, what kind of story it would tell. It seemed the writer kept telling of drug usage which only led to pain and debilitation. Generally drug users or those who self medicate are looking for some sort of relief even if temporary. So I am curious what all the drug related material will look like as its own story.

      If that is a good idea, then the other categories make sense, too.
      The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
        After reading Howie and Nina's annotated version of the Maybrick diary, my first impression is that the person who wrote it was writing ABOUT his subject, about James Maybrick's life as the writer imagined it to be or perhaps partly knew it. . . .
        Hi Anna

        I think what you say that the writer is writing "about James Maybrick's life as [they] imagined it to be" is key -- not sure about "perhaps partly knew it"

        Best regards

        Chris
        Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
        https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

        Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
        Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
          I did get the idea the writer discussed Manchester as having very bad weather, rather than Liverpool. Something about this was discussed somewhere else.
          Not quite, Anna. What "Sir Jim" was complaining about was that when he visited Manchester he found it 'cold and damp', much like Liverpool.

          Love,

          Caz
          X
          I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
            Hi. Michael. I think I'll leave the geography alone but thanks for the information. In Victorian times, wasn't Manchester heavily clouded with coal smoke? Maybe I am thinking of something from Dickens and I may not be correct in thinking Manchester.

            What got me thinking along the line I chose was reading what the diary writer said about drugs and medications. I wondered if all the information was collected, what kind of story it would tell. It seemed the writer kept telling of drug usage which only led to pain and debilitation. Generally drug users or those who self medicate are looking for some sort of relief even if temporary. So I am curious what all the drug related material will look like as its own story.

            If that is a good idea, then the other categories make sense, too.
            I think it's definately a good idea Anna. Especially when considering how drug users view themselves and what they are doing.

            I don't blame you for leaving the geography. I live in an area that was so ugly due to the results of heavy industry that Queen Victoria used to have the curtains in her train carriage drawn when she passed by. It's changed.....a little!
            Regards

            Michael🔎


            " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Michael Banks View Post
              I think it's definately a good idea Anna. Especially when considering how drug users view themselves and what they are doing.

              I don't blame you for leaving the geography. I live in an area that was so ugly due to the results of heavy industry that Queen Victoria used to have the curtains in her train carriage drawn when she passed by. It's changed.....a little!
              I think we have all known alcoholics--or drug addicts-- who suffered greatly from their way of life and admitted the suffering part. Some say they don't know why they continue to do it but they cannot stop. Others acknowledge a little relief from their actions. I would think a substance user/abuser who only experienced the negative consequences would be the one who has hit "rock bottom" and may be ready for a change.

              Throughout the diary what I noted on the drug/medicine usage was it made the taker feel terrible, perhaps unable to leave his room. Why did he continue to use such substances whatever they were? The writer did not seem to mention physical results from not taking these substances as a reason to continue.

              So I had the idea the writer who lacked personal understanding, was writing ABOUT someone else's drug usage, as the writer imagined it. Since the drug references are scattered throughout the diary I figure if they can all be pulled together we could get a clearer picture. Are there any positive sides to the drug usage, for instance. (Withdrawing arsenic after chronic usage can cause a disruption of biochemistry but I have had a devil of a time understanding all that and I need to know for something else I am researching.)

              I am not trying to figure out WHO wrote the thing and think I am in the camp that says it is fairly old and the writer is unknown.
              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Anna,

                The evidence seems to point to arsenic withdrawal having potentially fatal consequences, and I am very much inclined to believe this is what did for the real James in the end. He had a new source of arsenic in the January of 1889 and there was no shortage of it in the house, but it's possible that when he became really ill and was confined to bed he wasn't able to access his stash and that's what polished him off.

                The irony is that if he asked "Bunny" to fetch him his usual dosage, and she declined, unaware of the effects of withholding his "medicine", that could have been what killed him. Conversely, if she had indulged him, he might have died of some other cause, but with a lot more arsenic still in his body, and she would surely have hanged. I doubt she could have easily overdosed him with the stuff accidentally, as he was used to taking far more than would kill a non-user.

                Love,

                Caz
                X
                I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

                Comment


                • #9
                  That is good information, Caz. I think whatever the subject of the diary is supposed to be taking, it is not a feel-good substance. At this time it is hard to research what chronic arsenic usage does to the human body. If the information about drug usage in the diary accurately describes arsenic intoxication, that would be an interesting thing.

                  It appears to me the arsenic craze started abruptly and ended fairly rapidly. I cannot find information that it was much of an historic practice though arsenic was used in medications going back to ancient times.
                  The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post

                    It appears to me the arsenic craze started abruptly and ended fairly rapidly. I cannot find information that it was much of an historic practice though arsenic was used in medications going back to ancient times.
                    I would suggest reading The Arsenic Century as a good starter. Arsenic was a key tool for the Victorian physician, and for good reason. We have a tendency to think doctors of that era were idiots poisoning their patients but the reality is they used arsenic and its cousins because it worked.....

                    .....to a degree.

                    But I would never call it a craze with respect to medical practice.

                    https://www.amazon.com/Arsenic-Centu.../dp/0199605998

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SirRobertAnderson View Post
                      I would suggest reading The Arsenic Century as a good starter. Arsenic was a key tool for the Victorian physician, and for good reason. We have a tendency to think doctors of that era were idiots poisoning their patients but the reality is they used arsenic and its cousins because it worked.....

                      .....to a degree.

                      But I would never call it a craze with respect to medical practice.

                      https://www.amazon.com/Arsenic-Centu.../dp/0199605998
                      Thanks! I have seen this book advertised and wasn't sure what range it covered.

                      Arsenic is used today against a type of leukemia.
                      The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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