Did Mary Jane Kelly Really Exist?

[Robert Linford]

It doesn't help much but I'm posting this.


https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/prin...=t18840915-917

[Sam Flynn]

And I don't imagine women from the rougher parts of Cardiff or Glasgow were any less troublesome then their English/Irish equivalents.

Neither do I

[Gary Barnett]

But did they mean "British or Irish", for the same reason as I previously mentioned? (i.e. the tendency to use "Engish/England" to refer to "British/Britain")

I can't remember the context now, but as you say 'English' is often used to mean British. And I don't imagine women from the rougher parts of Cardiff or Glasgow were any less troublesome then their English/Irish equivalents.

[Sam Flynn]

I remember reading somewhere that continental brothels were reluctant to employ English or Irish girls because they were troublesome.

But did they mean "British or Irish", for the same reason as I previously mentioned? (i.e. the tendency to use "Engish/England" to refer to "British/Britain")

[Debra Arif]

I haven't come across those names before. Did they operate in the East End?

I don't know, Gary. They were mentioned in a prominent case of under-age trafficking reported extensively in this snazzily titled weekly circular
'The Shield: the Anti-Contagious Diseases Acts Association's weekly circular '

They regularly went in to great depth on the cases of trafficking to Belgium and other parts of the continent. Josephine Butler was involved with the campaign against the Contagious Diseases Act.

[Gary Barnett]

Hard to tell, given that "English/England" are so often incorrectly used to refer to "British/Britain".

I remember reading somewhere that continental brothels were reluctant to employ English or Irish girls because they were troublesome.

[Gary Barnett]

According to MJK, via Barnett, she was of full age by the time she landed in the Highway though? I think more she was influenced to take those names?
I was reading today about a man named Rogers and Max or Marx Schulz who apparently were at the London end of things. Have you come acrossthose names, Gary?

I haven't come across those names before. Did they operate in the East End?

[Sam Flynn]

'English' nationality? Does that exclude Irish, Scots and Welsh?

Hard to tell, given that "English/England" are so often incorrectly used to refer to "British/Britain".

[Anna Morris]

'English' nationality? Does that exclude Irish, Scots and Welsh?

I skimmed through quite a bit of information on the Belgian prostitution system today. Some sources seem to single out English girls as highly sought and Irish and Scottish girls were also very desired but are mentioned separately. I saw no mention of Welsh girls specifically.

The Louisa Hennessy case dealt specifically with an English girl and maybe that is why there is a slant that way? Or that girls were especially recruited in London for a quick trip across the channel? England to France and too much bother to drag them in from Ireland, Scotland or Wales? Just an idea.

[Gary Barnett]

Here is something for everyone to work on. If we could find T.W. Snagge's report, it would be interesting.

From "South Wales Echo", May, 1886.

'English' nationality? Does that exclude Irish, Scots and Welsh?

[Anna Morris]

In the clip I posted, #77 below, some of it has been sanitized. It states that the English girl Louisa was at first rejected because of her "youthful appearance." There is a much better account of this case and matters leading to this case. (When I feel a little better I will try to post a link to that.)

As I understand it, Belgian law allowed young girls to be prostitutes in brothels IF they had had prior experience in the profession.

Louisa was examined by a doctor and found to be a virgin. She was re-examined by another doctor and found to be a virgin. So she was sent to another location, I think it would be in Holland, and soon she was no longer a virgin.

[Anna Morris]

Here is another interesting item from 1881.

[Anna Morris]

Here is something for everyone to work on. If we could find T.W. Snagge's report, it would be interesting.

From "South Wales Echo", May, 1886.

[Debra Arif]

According to MJK, via Barnett, she was of full age by the time she landed in the Highway though? I think more she was influenced to take those names?
I was reading today about a man named Rogers and Max or Marx Schulz who apparently were at the London end of things. Have you come acrossthose names, Gary?

[Gary Barnett]

This from the Birmingham Daily Mail of 27/8/1881 gives a flavour of how the placeurs advertised the women they sought to traffic to the continent.

image.jpeg